Hi All,
First of all, thank you for your advices and sorry for so long report :)
We have made a first test with the different parameters.
I would like to share the results.
Briefly:
*
Sound quality with echoPath=0 is generally better than for
echoPath=128 and 256 (we lost sound of one attendee sometime)
*
Echo is actually suppressed with echoPath 128/256 whereas it is
noticeable with echoPath = 0 on the same configuration (using
notebook on the client side)
*
Delay between the video and sound is less for echoPath = 0
*
Delay between the video and sound is less for H263
So the conclusions are:
*
For the conference where some users with notebooks echoPath = 128 is
more preferrable;
*
For the conference where notebooks are not used echoPath = 0 is more
preferrable;
*
For the conferences with many attendees H263 is more preferrable
because it seems like that H264 usage increases the delay.
*Detailed report about the testing:*
Date: 29-April-2013
Where: demo.dataved.ru
Participants:
*
Artyom Horuzhenko (Linux desktop)
*
Denis Kandrov (Linux Desktop)
*
Irina Arkhipets (Windows desktop)
*
Yulia Algaer (Windows notebook)
*
SIP integration was turned on in the room, but nobody called there
during the testing. SIP transport presented in the user list.
Tested parameters: echoSuppression (true/false), echoPath (0/128/256),
codecType (264/263)
_*Results:*_
*Test 1.* echoPath=128, echoSuppression=true, video codec=264
(These are default values in the system)
*
No echo during all the test;
*
Sound from Denis disappeared sometime;
*
Delay between the hand clapping and its sound is less than 1 second,
but noticeable.
*Test 2.* echoPath=0, echoSuppression=true, video codec=264
*
Echo after Yulia (user with notebook) entered the room
*
Sound from Denis did not disappear all the time
*
No visible delay between the hand clapping and its sound
*Test 3.* echoPath=256, echoSuppression=true, video codec=264
*
No echo during all the test
*
Sound from Denis did not disappear all the time
*
Delay between the hand clapping and its sound is less than 1 second,
but noticable
*
Sound quality is significantly worse than in the Test 1.
*
SIP-transport produced noticeable noise
*Test 4.* echoPath=0, echoSuppression=false, video codec=264
*
Echo after Yulia (user with notebook) entered the room
*
Strong "jungle" was hearable all the time, sound quality is
significantly worse than in all the other tests.
*
Sound from Denis did not disappear all the time
*Test 5.* echoPath=128, echoSuppression=false, video codec=264
*
No echo
*
When Yulia (user with notebook) spoke, some "jungle" was hearable;
*
Delay between the hand clapping and its sound is less than 1 second,
but noticeable
*Test 6.* echoPath=128, echoSuppression=true, video codec=263
*
No echo during all the test
*
Delay between the hand clapping and its sound is almost negligible
*
If I increased video size, quality is visible worse than with H264
under the same conditions
Best regards,
Irina.
On 26.04.2013 18:04, Irina Arkhipets wrote:
Hi All,
Artyom just made some changes and for now AEC parameters can be
configurable via config.xml.
So we are planning to have some testing on demo.dataved.ru on the nearest
Monday (April, 29).
Approximate time is 15:00 NSK (GMT +7), and still we can move the time if
it's inconvenient.
If somebody from the list would like to participate - you are welcome, just
let me know :).
The testing scenario would be to enter the room and do the same things with
the different settings:
-
No echo cancellation (echoPath=0) and all the other settings are default
-
Echo path length is 128 ms and all the other settings are default
-
Echo path length is 256 ms and all the other settings are default
-
Camera codec is H264 (codecType=264) and all the other settings are
default
-
Camera codec is H263 and all the other settings are default
There are several other settings which can affect the sound quality,
however I would suggest try only AEC and codec for now as these are new
features implemented in the new release.
In the room, users should check the following things:
-
Speak and check if there is echo or not
-
Measure approximate delay (if any) between the video and sound. For
example, somebody count to 10 and lifts his fingers, others look for the
video and sound synchronization.
To check the echo better, we need several attendees with notebooks - my
experience shows that echo problems appears with notebooks very often.
What do you think?
Any ideas are welcomed!
Best regards,
Irina.
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:53 PM, [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:
IMHO having yet another checkbox where the user can decide to enable or
disable AEC can be only an additional thing on top of a general system wide
configuration.
The problem with this is for example that the average user does not even
know what AEC means.
Or what is the difference between hardware echo cancellation and software
echo cancellation ?!
So what would be the benefit for him in having a checkbox tagged "enabled
AEC" ?
One of the concerns people have against OpenMeetings is its complexity.
They just want to conference and not bother around with a lot of options.
I would also not disable the AEC feature by default as long as there is no
concrete use-case where AEC (or enhancedMicro mode) leads to an issue.
Same for h264. There was a discussion that included h264 a couple of weeks
ago:
http://markmail.org/message/fctg6eo5qf5hhcaa
The consens was:
- The amount of CPU that our clients needed more was not measurable.
- There is no concrete use case where enabling or disabling h264 would
improve anything
I agree that having a config for the Video codec, same as the Microphone
Mode, would be nice.
But changing any defaults now back and forth without concrete use cases and
some kind of test plan does not make a lot of sense to me.
So what I would propose is:
- Make Microphone and VideoCodec configurable and documentate this
- Set up a concrete test plan and communicate that through our mailing
lists.
Based on the feedback we might then discuss changing some defaults.
Sebastian
2013/4/23 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
My previous comment was regarding video codec
Auto selecting h264 based on SIP setting is not a good idea IMHO
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko <[email protected]
wrote:
Usually (for example, in Linphone) echo cancellation option is
available
for every user. In my opinion it would be better to allow users to
decide
use echo cancellation or not because its efficiency depends on
hardware.
2013/4/23 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
Maybe it is better to make it configurable somehow? config.xml is
good
candidate IMHO
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko <
[email protected]
wrote:
Hello,
I suppose using h264 would be necessary only in SIP rooms, for all
other
rooms - codec which used before (h263?). It avoids any suspections
about
h264 issues and increses performance. I'm also going to implement
switching
microphone mode in the audio/video test dialog. Is there anybody
who
disagree with this idea?
2013/4/23 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>
That would be great!
On Apr 23, 2013 5:36 AM, "Maxim Solodovnik" <
[email protected]>
wrote:
@Alexei this definitely can be done in realtime, BUT ... :)
The setting affects Working microphone so it is impossible to
ON/OFF
it
while speaking :(
The only option I can see is to add dropdown control to
testSetupDialog
(the one with choose camera and test recording). So we can have
something
like:
1) default system setting (can be moved to Admin->configuration
to
avoid
rewriting it after each upgrade)
2) per user setting stored in LocalData (like rememberLogin
default
cam/mic
etc.)
using above scheme user can change the setting while entering
the
room
or
"re-sync" audio/video
What do you think?
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:24 AM, Joseph Karwat <
[email protected]>
wrote:
We tested AEC out-of-the-box. We just installed and ran a
meeting
in
OM2.1- Litle or no echo. We then, using the exact same
configuration,
logged in to an OM2.0 server and ran a meeting. We
experienced
substantial
echo. We were both running a PC with Flash echo cancellation
on
but
no
hardware echo cancelation.
Also for OM2.1 Where do I set the buffer lenghth? Are there
any
other
parameters/options I should know about?
Joseph Karwat | CEO | 415-462-0263 | JellVideo |
www.jellnet.com|
JELL NETWORKS, INC.
Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
Click Here to Register for your JellVideo Collaboration
Account
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: AEC in the new release
Joseph, which devices show improvement? Which buffer length
did
you
use?
I like the suggestion - Maxim, how is it possible to
configure
AEC
in
realtime?
On Apr 22, 2013 11:30 PM, "Joseph Karwat" <
[email protected]
wrote:
We have a test OM2.1 server installed at AWS running
Unbuntu
12.04.
We tested AEC this morning for the first time and it did
seem
to
make
the audio work very well. Little if no echo. We still
need
to
test
under a wide range of scenarios, but we are encouraged by
the
performance this morning.
If you do make it a configurable setting. It should be an
option
when
setting up the room or allow the individual user to
enable/disabe
AEC
when in a conference room.
Making it a system-wide configuration option will delay
testing
and
adoption.
We will be conducting further testing of AEC over the next
few
days
and will report back with our findings. Anyone wishing to
participate
in our AEC testing is encouraged to contact me.
Joseph Karwat |415-462-0263 | JellVideo | www.jellnet.com|
JELL
NETWORKS, INC.
Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
Click Here to Register for your JellVideo Collaboration
Account
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:49 AM
To: dev; [email protected]
Subject: Re: AEC in the new release
There are no answers. My point here is that we can be 100%
sure
that
today AEC does not work as expected, and provides
distinctive
and
high
quality echo in 100% of situations when users use separate
dynamic
and
microphone systems.
The new thing is AEC mechanism sometimes meddles with
hardware
echo
cancellation support providing temporary sound outages. It
also
provides visible de-synchronization between sound and video
channels.
If someone has a different experience, please, speak up.
So I have two ideas to speak of. 1. Disable AEC in
openmeetings
releases by default. It takes a simple configuration change
to
enable
it. 2. Later understand when AEC really works, and fix it.
Folks, please again let me know if you disagree and have
beneficial
AEC experience.
--
With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, Alexei
Fedotov
/
Алексей
Федотов, http://dataved.ru/
+7 916 562 8095
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Alexei Fedotov
<[email protected]>
wrote:
Hello guys,
How AEC (acoustic echo cancellation) works for you in the
new
release?
Can anyone share usage experience?
--
With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, Alexei
Fedotov
/
Алексей Федотов, http://dataved.ru/
+7 916 562 8095
--
WBR
Maxim aka solomax
--
WBR
Maxim aka solomax
--
WBR
Maxim aka solomax
--
Sebastian Wagner
https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
http://www.webbase-design.de
http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
[email protected]
