On 4/24/13 11:34 PM, janI wrote: > On 24 April 2013 22:33, Juergen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Am Mittwoch, 24. April 2013 um 17:06 schrieb janI: >>> On 24 April 2013 16:25, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 4/22/13 10:50 PM, janI wrote: >>>>> On 22 April 2013 22:27, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 4/22/13 10:18 PM, janI wrote: >>>>>>> On 22 April 2013 20:54, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am currently preparing po files for AOO 4.0 and will focus >> on the >>>>>>>> languages that we have already released. All other langs will >> follow >>>>>>>> immediately. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have created 2 new projects on the "old" Pootle server to >> get an >>>>>>>> impression of how much work we have to do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is the status of sidebar online help ? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> no update at the moment. Our xhp file format is not the most >> intuitive >>>>>> format and especially the unique id's are tricky. I will try to >> figure >>>>>> out how the help authoring tooling works and if we can use it. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I hope we agree that we cannot release the sidebar without online >> help, >>>>> >>>> >>>> who >>>>> ever makes it. >>>> >>>> >>>> mmh, I am not sure if nobody will work on it and if we won't have it in >>>> time it would be no show stopper to me. Online help is not so critical, >>>> it would be of course good to have it. >>>> >>>> If you think it would be a stopper you should provide or propose a >>>> solution. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Well you know I cannot provide a solution, at least not within the >>> timeframe given. >>> >>> To me it would be a show stopper if the sidebar contains no help while >> the >>> old parts has help, or even worse non-translated help. >>> >>> Asking for a proposal is very fair. >>> >>> My top goal is to be consistent, so either: >>> 1) someone from doc. or elsewhere works on online help for the sidebar, I >>> can with my limited knowledge help with the integration. >>> 2) or we remove online help completly, stating it is being reworked. >>> >>> Our users are used to online help, and with a big new feature like the >>> sidebar, for sure many of them will seek online help in the way they are >>> used to, and be confused why the old features have help and the new >>> important one hasnt. >>> >>> To me this a very important issue: >>> >>> do we want to keep a dealine for the sake of the deadline and sacrife our >>> users, or do we want to release a "professional" product. In my mind >> there >>> are no doubt about the answer. >>> >>> >> >> we don't want to keep a deadline only for the sake of the deadline. We >> should be simply realistic, if nobody works on it we won't get one and it >> makes no sense to postpone the release because of a missing online help for >> one feature. >> We have released languages where the online help is not or only partial >> localized. This was and is fine as well. >>> >>> But of course it is not my opinion alone that counts, so lets have a >>> discussion...feel free to convince me why my point of view is wrong. >>> >>> >> >> I am simply realistic, if somebody steps forward and tell me that he/she >> can provide a basic online help for the sidebar in 1 week I would volunteer >> to merge and update the po files ones more to include the help in the >> translation process. If not I would move it to 4.1 because I believe that >> the online help is not so important . >> > > Fair, I believe it is very important....if you have a new feature and dont > know how it works you go to the online help, like you do in all other > parts. Of course if the product does not have online help at all, you would > also not expect it for a new feature.
well I use integrated help rather seldom and search more often in the web if I need help. But in general if such a new shining and visible feature like the sidebar is not intuitive to use we have already made the first mistake and that will no available online help change ;-) > > To put a bit more direct, if you bought a new car, and there was no manual > explaining how the new fancy voice activated radio worked, would you be > happy ? I would not. > > The 1 week is a selfmade deadline, that can be shifted as we like, we do > not break a contract or anything if we postpone the release. > We are planning more or less in 6 months cycles and I think this is a good approach. I would of course like to see more new stuff and more bugs fixed. But as always the work have to done. I would prefer a regular release cycle (more a train model) where we are flexible but where we try to hold the deadlines. If we move the deadlines every time somebody thinks we need a further fix, improvement, missing translation or whatever we ill have problems to release something at all. The deadline is known for some time and incompatible work should have been done already. Everything else can be moved to a 4.1, 4.2 or when it is ready. I don't see a problem, if a fix or feature can't make it for the deadline, it will be integrated in the next. And in general we should create a plan what should be in next release or where we want to put the focus for our next release. It's fine if everybody makes what he/she want, especially regarding bug fixes. But for bigger features or directions I would like to see a plan where we can all agree and where we work together to achieve this plan. For example for a 4.1 I can imagine to focus on OOXML support as one key feature. You can see as a motto for the release, a focus area ... > WE should in general be very carefull about moving features from 4.0 to > 4.1. 4.0 is a major release, where we can allow ourself (with good reason) > to be incompatible, whereas 4.1. is a maintenance release and a bit. I do > not like the tendency at the moment to push everything difficult or > unpleasant to 4.1, just to keep the 4.0 deadline. we should more careful the next time when we put something on this plan that we can't achieve. I will for sure not put anything on the plan that I can't provide in time. But nevertheless a plan is necessary that we can organize the missing pieces in time. Coordinate development work with QA, documentation etc. > > But again, if the general opinion is, that is better to keep a selfmade > deadline and release a half finished product, it would not be fair of me to > stand in the way. See above, I think we have to hold our deadlines to show confidence to the outside. But we can of course improve our planning in the future. Or we should think about a real train model where we release every 3 or 4 month. But where we maintain also a more stable branch where we fix mainly bugs and potential security fixes. Juergen > > jan I. > > Ps. I think the sidebar is a fantastic feature, and I also like the other > features I have seen (and understood). > > >> >> Juergen >>> >>> rgds >>> jan I >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Juergen >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But for the future we need probably somthing new. >>>>> >>>>> yes, I used to use Qt help system, which are quite easy to maintain, >> but >>>>> this is only one of a couple of good candicates. The tricky thing is >> that >>>>> we problaly need to change all the keys in the src files...lots of >>>>> >>>> >>>> editing, >>>>> but a nice job for a new volunteer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the UI in "de" will have to check/translate for example >> 4986 >>>>>>>> strings, I know we have string moved and translations should be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> already >>>>>>>> available but my knowledge of the language tools and/or >> translation >>>>>>>> memory is too lazy. any kind of help is appreciated ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am traveling the next 2 days and have onyl limited time to >> work on >>>> it. >>>>>>>> But I expect to have the po's ready at the end of the week >> that we can >>>>>>>> start with the work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please mail me, when you have synced the PO files on the old vm, >> then I >>>>>>> will copy them to the new vm. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ok >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will keep you informed and please don't use the new AOO 4.0 >> related >>>>>>>> projects as long as I give the ok. We will potentially use the >> new >>>>>>>> Pootle server. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The new server is in test....and awaits a principle discussion >> between >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> AOO >>>>>>> and Infra. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> what kind of discussion? >>>>> >>>>> Only committer login (infra version ) or local login and committer >> login >>>>> (aoo version rob/andrea) >>>>> >>>>> I have given andrea and infra a possible compromise. >>>>> >>>>> Did you not see my mail (private list) ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Juergen >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> rgds >>>>>>> Jan I. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Juergen >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >> dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
