One more factor to consider is that the official Java installer promoted by Oracle tries really hard to trick the end-user into installing adware/spyware at the same time. We used to avoid this in the Sun installer by bundling Java, but having it as an external dependency for new AOO users means they face the challenge not only of finding and installing Java but avoiding the malware as they do so.
I'd say this was a really big negative for a dependency on official Java. It's not a problem on Linux where there is usually an OpenJDK bundle available, but it's a huge negative on Windows. S. On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <orc...@apache.org> wrote: > The Java dependency problem keeps coming up buried in other threads. I am > redirecting the most recent case so we can put light on this situation. > > Before the dependencies on Java are increased/improved, I think there is a > crucial usability matter. > > 1. Currently users are trap-doored by exercising a feature or dialog that > suddenly raises a Java dependency, sometimes for which there is no escape > other than finding a way to shut down AOO that is not a normally-required > skill. > > 2. The fact that full functioning of AOO is buried in the system > requirements in a way that users can easily overlook (or never examine) is > a problem. We can fix that page, even providing (or linking to) specific > details of what the dependencies are. That would be useful so developers > and power-users have the details. However, the system requirements are > probably not read by most who download the software (based on over 40 > million downloads of 4.1.1, overwhelmingly on systems designed for casual > users). > > 3. If the installer required presence of Java, that would be a clear > indication that it is required for operation. It would also be helpful if > the installer provided an usable link for installing a workable Java if one > is not present. > > 4. If the presence of Java is indeed optional, and the user does not have > it or elects not to use it, AOO should not even offer functions for which > Java is required. That is another way to improve the usability and at > least avoid users falling through trap-doors. > > 5. Shouldn't we do this better? Or are we to decree that AOO is only > intended for power-users who have strong skills with regard to managing > their configurations, managing the install of dependencies, > trouble-shooting and being able to work around the not-dependable way > things work now? > > Three paths come to mind. > > A. Remove the Java dependencies. > > B. Adjust the Java dependencies, > 1. So that the dependencies are clear and the situation around > failures to find a suitable JRE is made workable for casual users. This > could involve the above (2-4) remedies. > 2. Only then consider increasing the dependencies on Java for > full-function operation in some controllable way. > > C. Make AOO a Java application that has C++ components, rather than the > reverse. > > These are all serious. Probably on the way to either A or C, one must > address B. > > We also need to consider what the project's capacity for any of these > cases happens to be. > > Thoughts? > > - Dennis > > PS: There is a bigger question about platform presence in here. There are > distributions for which Java dependency is not particularly attractive and > we may be cutting ourselves off from those. That might not matter if we > are talking about the small percentage of the downloads that are for > neither Windows nor Macintosh desktop PCs. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pedro Giffuni [mailto:p...@apache.org] > > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 08:07 > > To: Apache OO <dev@openoffice.apache.org> > > Subject: Re: Thinking of joining OpenOffice as a developer > > > > Hello; > > > > First of all, a warm welcome to Patricia. Java developers are > > particularly welcome at this stage! > > > > Just IMHO, the C++ side of AOO is either under-control or > > too-ugly-to care-about, so we would do good focus more on the > > Java parts, which are also somewhat ugly but still promising. > [ ... ] > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > -- *Simon Phipps* http://webmink.com *Office:* +1 (415) 683-7660 *or* +44 (238) 098 7027 *Mobile*: +44 774 776 2816 *or Telegram <https://telegram.me/webmink>*
