Mohamed Samy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on "[EMAIL PROTECTED]":
>Basically they summarize to specific "big ideas": > >- Integrating multiple forms of online & offline communication, >including IM retroshare and others. Making Thunderbird the interface >to disparate services. > >- Adding more improved addresses and calendering. > >- Better support for corporate needs to compete with the Outlook >+Exchange duo. > >I think these could be fine starting points for a new plan. And I'd >like to add my own suggestion of integrating On 7/30/07, Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on "[EMAIL PROTECTED]": > Anybody is free to fork Thunderbird or other Mozilla code. However I'm > here as a part of the Mozilla community and I guess that will stay that > way ;-) Hi Mohamed, Eddy and List, if only 2 developers are working on Thunderbird and the main reason to start such a public discussion is just revenue or the retrun on invest, then it would much more easier to say to Scott and David: work 6 hours per day on Firefox and only 2 hours on Thunderbird. Or: make a pause on Thunderbird for one year. It would be so easy to make Thunderbird bigger, just by adding the Sunbird Calendar by default and adding Thunderbird to the Firefox Installer by default. The reasons for organizational change are not the one that Thunbderbird is a bad product or missing something (adding Calendar and TB to FF-Installer by default is a thing of hours!! and if not done to make TB bigger a question of "Miss-Management" Mitchell Baker). The reasons may lay in another direction a) maybe Google wants a filetated/cutted clean core Foundation for G-Browser b) maybe the employment of the coders is difficult due to social reasons and they want to have them in an own Company. c) a financial view to say always: why employing you, though thunderbird has no sponsors. Either you regard a Foundation responsible for the whole, or you are an oeconomist. That this oeconomic view of an open source project, which grow up in a philosophic orientated community now gets a lot of bashing in the comments.. leads to the question, if Mozilla is still the open source organization many contributors are working for. Accepting many hours of work from freelancers making Firefox big at it is -- with the consequence google is raping it - and then on the other hand saying that the income of two salaried has no return on the invest and that they should be outsourced from the mother... mitchel, you have no heart! I do not like doctors, which focus only on the stomac and not on the whole person, situation and history of the ill person. So my question is, if Mozilla is only defining Thunderbird as ill, with any development discussion and any meeting Mitchell with the TB Developers had. But Thunderbird is not ill. It just needs a release with Sunbird Calendar and some Bundling with FF. So this leads to Mitchells wrong view. She is the problem, shortening the income of the TB developers with any view and sentence and/or throwing the bird into environment circumstances, in which synergy-effects are excluded. So to ask direct: Do you await MORE development, if TB is on one of these Options (e.g. like in an own company with direct return on invest)? No... it is like cutting the water for a tree. I think this decision is very wrong. The other option to make a subproject somewhere in Mozilla is not really a question to discuss in such a wide public range, as this could be done as said (less hours, making a pause, just changing the path from Mozialla/TB to Mozilla/projects/TB ???). So why this discussion? there is a wider history and wider meaning behind it, we all do not know and the developers of TB cannot say anything about it. They comment it, after it was requested. A change of Thunderbird announced by the Developers would encourage the community, The announcement by the Revenue-Management is only discarding Thunderbird and announcing step by step the Throwing.Out of Thunderbird out of the nest. Hey, look where Sunbird or Seamonkey is, here you can RIP, TB. No.. this would not help TB, to get more development. And the question rises, if the Mozilla foundation is the right nest still, where community support is taken, but non-revenue products are killed. This is really an afront against the whole community working for Mozilla. So for the expatriated Son the home is not anymore Moziall, this is why I see in a new start or a fork of Thunderbird more development, that in the old home-environment, which cutted the water pipe. Besides OOo investing money into 2 or three developers for Thunderbird with IM as an OOo product Component, I think that anyone, who wants to contribute to Thunderbird, is at the moment a freelancer besides 2 from mozilla paid developers. If both get an offer from sun, then the situation is clear, but if not, my answer to the question is, that the community can support Thunderbird in any CVS path! But be sure, David and Scott are not paid for TB from Mozilla anymore, This is the revenue discussion started by Mitchell. So.. who is left to develop Thunderbird? 2 Developers in the sparetime (while paid for the G-Browser) giving support or focusing on some community members of the list? No.. then make Thunderbird a community Project and show mitchilla your shoulder. thunderbird.sf.net is still free, and then Mozilla should agree to give the Trademark name "Thunderbird" free. Or directly to OOo without Money. Thunderbird in OOo has a better environment than at SF.net or as a project in the mitchilla Foundation, which is not paying any developer for TB. So the question where to host Thunderbird is simple and connected to the answer to this question. Where is Thunderbird bundled in: a) in the Firefox Installer b) in the OpenOffice Installer. There, where the bundling is, should be the Thunderbird Project CVS. If Sun-OOo spends Money on paid developers for TB, or if the two lead developers are still paid from Mozilla working for Firefox, is a question first Sun should initiate by sending them an job offer and second by the personal decision of the coders. And: the method how to decide depends not on the focus of the vision or roadmap of Thunderbird, Thunderbird is the one Open Source Email client we have, which is doing only offlinecommunication at the moment, so the new fokus is adding online-communicaiton as well, which is an instant messenger. here the most innovative protocol is retroshare, as it belongs to no central instance (servers or companies). Here we are, where the community is, which makes OpenSource great. The same here: why supporting MSN-Messenger in the sparetime of OpenSource-Contributers, with the mitchell-effect of taking it, but pushing out any non-renevue. Which menue now gets a new sex gui for a (email-)contact and online-presence-Friendslist, is a question later can be discussed. As there are addons (sameplace.cc) for jabber with all accounts of AOL, MSN, YAHOO and ICQ transports, we do not need to add this to Thunderbird. So the roadmap is clear: maybe an IM and maybe serverless added to TB, next to Sunbird lightning calendar, (and yes Mohammed, maybe a better search functionality and content management of the emails, you are welcome). Let´s wait, from whom Scott and David get paid and which job they do, for Firefox or for Thunderbird. I mean, an own company, no one is sponsering, does not give them sustainability, then they are better employed at sun! And a refinancing TB-Company I do not want, as this means to have a weatherforecast button in Thunderbird and a Search Toolbar and Spam-Filters, which do not work for Microsoft-Mails. This is all something, we cannot influence, if someone is not making a fork, as said thunderbird.sf.net is still free. But clear is: Scott and David get no work on Thunderbird paid anymore. Thanks Mitchell! But the public interest could be used, to found a new core developer team from the community working on Thunderbird, getting an Instant Messenger in. Where it is hosted, depends on the fork-lokation. As managers of OpenOffice had contacts with Retroshare developers for a Collaboration, and the OOoConference has a Presentation "Email and Instant Messenger - the missing Components in OOo", I think retroshare and OOo are already good friends, if Thunderbird Email joins as well Instant Messaging, the bridge is already done. The effect of such a public discussion could be as well, that the community forced Mitchell to pay not only 2, but 3 or 4 developers for Thunderbird with integrated Online-Messaging. Then Mozilla is the right place, but then it is about adding money and not an "organizational change". Regards Mike. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
