Not fighting, just for the benefits of the both tomcat and owb, this is duplicate effort both in owb and tomcat.
if you feel the best to stay in owb, no problem but I thought that if it is in tomcat, it is natural to download via tomcat, no need to have configration, more community, and do more innovation with more users.... And also I am not sure that tomcat community will accept that proposal :) On 1 Jul 2020 Wed at 14:53 Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibu...@gmail.com> wrote: > This module has some users - don't know if tomcat-owb has, maybe Rémy you > have some insights? - but these last years we got most users moving to > tomee or meecrowave cause it is better integrated, ready to run and has > modern flavors (embedded vs standalone tomcat) enabling modern deployments > (thinking strongly to k8s + CDS). > Only remaining case is bare metal tomcat where tomee takes most users these > days because it is well tooled - maven, gradle and testing. So at the end > this module is mainly for historical advanced users. > Concretely this module has ~300 downloads/month (to compare to the 20k of > owb-impl module). > > In any case, I don't think Tomcat will not promote CDI and any CDI/OWB > support will likely be redirected here at some point so moving is an > useless indirection. > Also why Tomcat is so popular is that it is a servlet container (a bit more > but just to share the idea), so it is used by everyone, if you get more you > will get the exact same issue than with a full EE container: "it is too > much for me, let's grab something else". > Microprofile proves that: it does not even need a servlet layer at all > theoretically. > In that regard TomEE would be a better home but it is not the goal of the > project to do this light integration today - and we have a few alternative > at apache. > It is also highly consistent with meecrowave to have @owb. While we > maintain meecrowave we maintain this module sounds like a very fair > assumption. > > @Gurkan Erdogdu <gurkanerdo...@yahoo.com> can you clarify why you fight so > strongly to drop that module we own since years and not jetty one for > example? I totally fail to see the point. > > Romain Manni-Bucau > @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog > <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog > <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github < > https://github.com/rmannibucau> | > LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book > < > https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance > > > > > Le mer. 1 juil. 2020 à 13:03, Gurkan Erdogdu <cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com> a > écrit : > > > All other specs at the moment consumes or will consume CDI core. Even if > > not, it must be. CDI is somebit different from other specs (especially I > am > > talking about the injection part) and now your observation may not be > true > > anymore. (As you said CDI consumes servlet but not the other way). > > > > I am not agree with that when Tomcat embeds CDI , it also support EJB, > > Security etc. No, it is not . > > > > Who currently uses our tomcat7 module? Do you know its popularity? I > > suspect that is large enough community on this. I started to wrote this > > tomcat7 module years years ago because, CDI is not in the same state as > it > > is currently. > > > > But within Tomcat, it can reach and develop further community. One can > use > > Tomcat without external configration and update (like owb did) and on top > > of that they can extend Tomcat naturally. With single download of Tomcat, > > you also get fantastic CDI platform. > > > > I think this is really a great idea. > > > > Gurkan > > > > On 1 Jul 2020 Wed at 13:35 Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de.invalid> > > wrote: > > > > > As long as Tomcat doesn't release the integration as part of their core > > > build we can stop the whole discussion! > > > > > > -1 on dropping webbeans-tomcat7 > > > > > > > > > Once there is a good alternative in the main build in tomcat we can > > > discuss this again. > > > > > > LieGrue, > > > strub > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 01.07.2020 um 12:01 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau < > > rmannibu...@gmail.com > > > >: > > > > > > > > Le mer. 1 juil. 2020 à 11:52, Gurkan Erdogdu < > cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com > > > > > > a > > > > écrit : > > > > > > > >> CDI is the core spec for all other Jakarta EE specifications. I > really > > > dont > > > >> know why Tomcat does not include it naturally. I think the home > > > >> for such natural integration will be Tomcat. But, not under the > > modules, > > > >> but integrated into the Tomcat core and release monthyl with Tomcat > > > release > > > >> > > > > > > > > Nop, EE always built each spec independently of the IoC - which is > > wrong > > > I > > > > agree but it is what has been done and why you have at least 5 > > concurrent > > > > IoC in EE. > > > > If we follow your reasoning, tomcat should also include EJB, JAXRS, > > > > javax.security etc, not sure it would be sane and you just move the > > issue > > > > which is that once you trivially integrated servlet+cdi you must > > > integrate > > > > servlet+cdi+security, then +jaxrs etc (Pareto law applies well > there). > > > > So at the end, CDI is based on servlet spec - since it is spec-ed > like > > > that > > > > cause servlet spec rejected CDI integration at that time - then CDI > is > > > > built on top on tomcat and not the opposite and in terms of build > > > > dependency, OWB consumes servlet spec, not the opposite so strictly > > > > speaking it is more logical to keep it in OWB. > > > > Lastly you still ignore that we integrate with jetty too and if we > keep > > > > jetty we must keep tomcat for consistency of our deliveries and user > > > facing > > > > artifacts so IMHO there is no need to only do half of the discussion > > > which > > > > can only lead to half a decision which means it would not be > applicable > > > at > > > > the end IMHO. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> Remy, > > > >> Is it possible to open a discussion in tomcat dev list to discuss > more > > > on > > > >> this topic? > > > >> > > > >> Gurkan > > > >> > > > >> On 1 Jul 2020 Wed at 12:45 Romain Manni-Bucau < > rmannibu...@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Hmm, sounds close to what we deliver ( > > > >>> http://openwebbeans.apache.org/owbsetup_tomcat.html ). > > > >>> I agree we Gurkan we should be able to converge but today I don't > see > > > why > > > >>> Tomcat is a saner home, factually it is worse since it is not ready > > to > > > >> use > > > >>> for end user compared to owb distro and fact it is in > tomcat/modules > > is > > > >> not > > > >>> that encouraging to me (and I assume tomcat will not release it in > > its > > > >>> monthly release, right?). > > > >>> > > > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau > > > >>> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog > > > >>> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog > > > >>> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github < > > > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau> | > > > >>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book > > > >>> < > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Le mer. 1 juil. 2020 à 11:27, Gurkan Erdogdu < > > cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com > > > > > > > >> a > > > >>> écrit : > > > >>> > > > >>>> Thanks Remy. > > > >>>> Is it possible to merge these 2 efforts to single one under Tomcat > > > >>> coebase? > > > >>>> I dont see any reason to maintain two different implementation > with > > > the > > > >>>> same aim > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On 1 Jul 2020 Wed at 11:14 Rémy Maucherat <r...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 10:35 AM Gurkan Erdogdu < > > > >>>> cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> Sorry but not understand why both Tomcat and OWB doing the same > > > >> think > > > >>>>> with > > > >>>>>> nearly same classes > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> @Remy > > > >>>>>> Just wonder why did you introduce such a module in tomcat > modules? > > > >> Do > > > >>>> you > > > >>>>>> have any specific purpose? > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> The idea is to provide a different packaging, with specific easy > to > > > >>>> follow > > > >>>>> instructions that allow adding CDI support to the Tomcat > container. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Rémy > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> -- > > > >>>> Gurkan Erdogdu > > > >>>> http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >> -- > > > >> Gurkan Erdogdu > > > >> http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com > > > >> > > > > > > -- > > Gurkan Erdogdu > > http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com > > > -- Gurkan Erdogdu http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com
