Integration is always a split effort. No matter whether you put it into tomcat or owb it will be 'wrong' for half the people ;)
If we put the integration into tomcat they'd still need to download and add the necessary other modules from owb. What if they want the JSF integration as well? -> download that exact module (in the right version!) from OWB site. etc. LieGrue, strub > Am 01.07.2020 um 14:00 schrieb Gurkan Erdogdu <cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com>: > > Not fighting, just for the benefits of the both tomcat and owb, this is > duplicate effort both in owb and tomcat. > > if you feel the best to stay in owb, no problem but I thought that if it is > in tomcat, it is natural to download via tomcat, no need to have > configration, more community, and do more innovation with more users.... > > And also I am not sure that tomcat community will accept that proposal :) > > > > On 1 Jul 2020 Wed at 14:53 Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> This module has some users - don't know if tomcat-owb has, maybe Rémy you >> have some insights? - but these last years we got most users moving to >> tomee or meecrowave cause it is better integrated, ready to run and has >> modern flavors (embedded vs standalone tomcat) enabling modern deployments >> (thinking strongly to k8s + CDS). >> Only remaining case is bare metal tomcat where tomee takes most users these >> days because it is well tooled - maven, gradle and testing. So at the end >> this module is mainly for historical advanced users. >> Concretely this module has ~300 downloads/month (to compare to the 20k of >> owb-impl module). >> >> In any case, I don't think Tomcat will not promote CDI and any CDI/OWB >> support will likely be redirected here at some point so moving is an >> useless indirection. >> Also why Tomcat is so popular is that it is a servlet container (a bit more >> but just to share the idea), so it is used by everyone, if you get more you >> will get the exact same issue than with a full EE container: "it is too >> much for me, let's grab something else". >> Microprofile proves that: it does not even need a servlet layer at all >> theoretically. >> In that regard TomEE would be a better home but it is not the goal of the >> project to do this light integration today - and we have a few alternative >> at apache. >> It is also highly consistent with meecrowave to have @owb. While we >> maintain meecrowave we maintain this module sounds like a very fair >> assumption. >> >> @Gurkan Erdogdu <gurkanerdo...@yahoo.com> can you clarify why you fight so >> strongly to drop that module we own since years and not jetty one for >> example? I totally fail to see the point. >> >> Romain Manni-Bucau >> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog >> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog >> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github < >> https://github.com/rmannibucau> | >> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book >> < >> https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance >>> >> >> >> Le mer. 1 juil. 2020 à 13:03, Gurkan Erdogdu <cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com> a >> écrit : >> >>> All other specs at the moment consumes or will consume CDI core. Even if >>> not, it must be. CDI is somebit different from other specs (especially I >> am >>> talking about the injection part) and now your observation may not be >> true >>> anymore. (As you said CDI consumes servlet but not the other way). >>> >>> I am not agree with that when Tomcat embeds CDI , it also support EJB, >>> Security etc. No, it is not . >>> >>> Who currently uses our tomcat7 module? Do you know its popularity? I >>> suspect that is large enough community on this. I started to wrote this >>> tomcat7 module years years ago because, CDI is not in the same state as >> it >>> is currently. >>> >>> But within Tomcat, it can reach and develop further community. One can >> use >>> Tomcat without external configration and update (like owb did) and on top >>> of that they can extend Tomcat naturally. With single download of Tomcat, >>> you also get fantastic CDI platform. >>> >>> I think this is really a great idea. >>> >>> Gurkan >>> >>> On 1 Jul 2020 Wed at 13:35 Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> As long as Tomcat doesn't release the integration as part of their core >>>> build we can stop the whole discussion! >>>> >>>> -1 on dropping webbeans-tomcat7 >>>> >>>> >>>> Once there is a good alternative in the main build in tomcat we can >>>> discuss this again. >>>> >>>> LieGrue, >>>> strub >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Am 01.07.2020 um 12:01 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau < >>> rmannibu...@gmail.com >>>>> : >>>>> >>>>> Le mer. 1 juil. 2020 à 11:52, Gurkan Erdogdu < >> cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> a >>>>> écrit : >>>>> >>>>>> CDI is the core spec for all other Jakarta EE specifications. I >> really >>>> dont >>>>>> know why Tomcat does not include it naturally. I think the home >>>>>> for such natural integration will be Tomcat. But, not under the >>> modules, >>>>>> but integrated into the Tomcat core and release monthyl with Tomcat >>>> release >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nop, EE always built each spec independently of the IoC - which is >>> wrong >>>> I >>>>> agree but it is what has been done and why you have at least 5 >>> concurrent >>>>> IoC in EE. >>>>> If we follow your reasoning, tomcat should also include EJB, JAXRS, >>>>> javax.security etc, not sure it would be sane and you just move the >>> issue >>>>> which is that once you trivially integrated servlet+cdi you must >>>> integrate >>>>> servlet+cdi+security, then +jaxrs etc (Pareto law applies well >> there). >>>>> So at the end, CDI is based on servlet spec - since it is spec-ed >> like >>>> that >>>>> cause servlet spec rejected CDI integration at that time - then CDI >> is >>>>> built on top on tomcat and not the opposite and in terms of build >>>>> dependency, OWB consumes servlet spec, not the opposite so strictly >>>>> speaking it is more logical to keep it in OWB. >>>>> Lastly you still ignore that we integrate with jetty too and if we >> keep >>>>> jetty we must keep tomcat for consistency of our deliveries and user >>>> facing >>>>> artifacts so IMHO there is no need to only do half of the discussion >>>> which >>>>> can only lead to half a decision which means it would not be >> applicable >>>> at >>>>> the end IMHO. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Remy, >>>>>> Is it possible to open a discussion in tomcat dev list to discuss >> more >>>> on >>>>>> this topic? >>>>>> >>>>>> Gurkan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1 Jul 2020 Wed at 12:45 Romain Manni-Bucau < >> rmannibu...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hmm, sounds close to what we deliver ( >>>>>>> http://openwebbeans.apache.org/owbsetup_tomcat.html ). >>>>>>> I agree we Gurkan we should be able to converge but today I don't >> see >>>> why >>>>>>> Tomcat is a saner home, factually it is worse since it is not ready >>> to >>>>>> use >>>>>>> for end user compared to owb distro and fact it is in >> tomcat/modules >>> is >>>>>> not >>>>>>> that encouraging to me (and I assume tomcat will not release it in >>> its >>>>>>> monthly release, right?). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Romain Manni-Bucau >>>>>>> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog >>>>>>> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog >>>>>>> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github < >>>>>>> https://github.com/rmannibucau> | >>>>>>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Le mer. 1 juil. 2020 à 11:27, Gurkan Erdogdu < >>> cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>>> écrit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Remy. >>>>>>>> Is it possible to merge these 2 efforts to single one under Tomcat >>>>>>> coebase? >>>>>>>> I dont see any reason to maintain two different implementation >> with >>>> the >>>>>>>> same aim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1 Jul 2020 Wed at 11:14 Rémy Maucherat <r...@apache.org> >> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 10:35 AM Gurkan Erdogdu < >>>>>>>> cgurkanerdo...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry but not understand why both Tomcat and OWB doing the same >>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> nearly same classes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Remy >>>>>>>>>> Just wonder why did you introduce such a module in tomcat >> modules? >>>>>> Do >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> have any specific purpose? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The idea is to provide a different packaging, with specific easy >> to >>>>>>>> follow >>>>>>>>> instructions that allow adding CDI support to the Tomcat >> container. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rémy >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Gurkan Erdogdu >>>>>>>> http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gurkan Erdogdu >>>>>> http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> Gurkan Erdogdu >>> http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com >>> >> > -- > Gurkan Erdogdu > http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com
