I can't speak for other's motivations, but for me it is about better
communicating parquet as a format specification, with a number of
implementations in different languages, as opposed to a specific Java
implementation. Perhaps something closer to the approach of arrow, where
there is a family of first-party implementations, across a number of
different languages, that all work together to ensure interoperability,
evolve the specification, etc... Warranted or not, there is still a
perception among some that parquet is closely tied to the Spark / Hadoop
ecosystems, and only useful as a means of interoperating with said
ecosystems.
On 16/05/2024 14:11, Rok Mihevc wrote:
What are the benefits of a parquet implementation being part of Apache
Parquet vs another Apache project vs something else entirely?
Being part of Apache org? Branding? Voting rights?
If motivations are clear, solutions might be more readily apparent.
Rok
On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 2:36 PM Raphael Taylor-Davies
<r.taylordav...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
I'm curious where the other arrow parquet implementations fit into this,
if at all? For context, the original Rust implementation was largely the
work of Chao Sun, who I believe to be a parquet PMC member, but it was
then donated to the arrow project, and has primarily been developed and
maintained by individuals affiliated with the arrow project since then,
myself included. I'm not suggesting all parquet implementations
necessarily need to be governed by the parquet PMC, but perhaps what
ever compromise we devise for parquet-cpp might equally be applied to
the other parquet projects that fall under the arrow umbrella?
Kind Regards,
Raphael
On 16/05/2024 13:26, Uwe L. Korn wrote:
I would actually consider someone who contributes to both communities at
the same time to be a worthwhile addition to both projects. In my active
years, we have mostly voted people into both projects; the order was not
clear, though.
Being a committer/PMC means that you want to bring the community around
a project forward in the Apache way (with parquet-cpp this is given as it
is part of the parquet community and also still in a project that is
residing within the Apache org).
he told me that the contribution to
parquet-cpp is no longer considered when promoting committers to
Apache Parquet PMC.
As a Parquet PMC, I would strongly object to that and would be
supportive of also making them a Parquet committer/PMC.
Best
Uwe
On Thu, May 16, 2024, at 2:19 PM, Gang Wu wrote:
Hi,
I share the same feeling with Antoine that parquet-cpp seems to be fully
governed by Apache Arrow PMC, not the Apache Parquet PMC. I have
once discussed this with Xinli and he told me that the contribution to
parquet-cpp is no longer considered when promoting committers to
Apache Parquet PMC.
Best,
Gang
On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 4:29 PM Antoine Pitrou <anto...@python.org>
wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2024 10:08:42 +0200
"Uwe L. Korn" <uw...@xhochy.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 14, 2024, at 6:30 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
AFAIK, the only Parquet implementation under the Apache Parquet
project
is parquet-mr :-)
This is not true. The parquet-cpp that resides in the arrow repository
is still controlled by the Apache Parquet PMC. Back then, we only
merged
the codebases but kept control of it with the Apache Parquet project. I
know, it is hard to understand, but at least I have never seen a vote
that
would move it out of the Apache Parquet's project "control".
Ahah. Unfortunately, this doesn't match actual community practices. For
example, when it is decided to give (Arrow) commit rights to a frequent
Parquet C++ contributor, that decision is made among the Arrow PMC, not
the Parquet PMC.
Perhaps there would be value in aligning the legal situation on the
_de facto_ situation?
Regards
Antoine.
Best
Uwe
On Tue, 14 May 2024 10:58:58 +0200
Rok Mihevc <rok.mih...@gmail.com> wrote:
Second Raphael's point.
Would it be reasonable to say specification change requires
implementation
in two parquet implementations within Apache Parquet project?
Rok
On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 10:50 AM Gang Wu <
ustcwg-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org> wrote:
IMHO, it looks more reasonable if a reference implementation is
required
to support most (not all) elements from the specification.
Another question is: should we discuss (and vote for) each
candidate
one by one? We can start with parquet-mr which is most well-known
implementation.
Best,
Gang
On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 4:41 PM Raphael Taylor-Davies
<r.taylordav...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
Potentially it would be helpful to flip the question around. As
Andrew
articulates, a reference implementation is required to implement
all
elements from the specification, and therefore the major
consequence of
labeling parquet-mr thusly would be that any specification change
would
have to be implemented within parquet-mr as part of the
standardisation
process. It would be insufficient for it to be implemented in, for
example, two of the parquet implementations maintained by the
arrow
project. I personally think that would be a shame and likely
exclude
many people who would otherwise be interested in evolving the
parquet
specification, but think that is at the core of this question.
Kind Regards,
Raphael
On 13/05/2024 20:55, Andrew Lamb wrote:
Question: Should we label parquet-mr or any other parquet
implementations
"reference" implications"?
This came up as part of Vinoo's great PR to list different
parquet
reference implementations[1][2].
The term "reference implementation" often has an official
connotation.
For
example the wikipedia definition is "a program that implements
all
requirements from a corresponding specification. The reference
implementation ... should be considered the "correct" behavior
of any
other
implementation of it."[3]
Given the close association of parquet-mr to the parquet
standard, it
is
a
natural candidate to label as "reference implementation."
However, it
is
not clear to me if there is consensus that it should be thusly
labeled.
I have a strong opinion that a consensus on this question would
be very
helpful. I don't actually have a strong opinion about the answer
Andrew
[1]:
https://github.com/apache/parquet-site/pull/53#discussion_r1582882267
[2]:
https://github.com/apache/parquet-site/pull/53#discussion_r1598283465
[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_implementation
