The Pekko PMC has basically the same role and importance when Pekko is
a podling as it will have when Pekko graduates to be a Top Level
Project.

There is an oversight role from the Incubator PMC but that does not
lessen the importance of the Pekko PMC.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 12:54, Jean-Luc Deprez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> What is set in CODEOWNERS is somewhat "set in stone". So I'd argue to keep
> that broad, like PMC(ish). People will naturally partition themselves in
> feeling they can rule on a certain section of the code. Without inhibiting
> progress, waiting for a very small set of people to revive.
>
> I think the PMC ends up being a large group anyway, especially for a
> project of this size. The fact that you need 3+ PMC votes + majority, sure
> seems to indicate that.
>
> (btw, I'm well aware that the whole PMC thing only formally activates when
> graduating from the incubator, but I'd argue that the current start list of
> committers is indicative for what could be PMC?)
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 11:31 AM Johannes Rudolph <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks to all that input.
> >
> > One thing to keep in mind is that Akka/Pekko codebase is already a
> > mature project with all its consequences:
> >
> >  * There are parts of the code base that are very stable and will
> > likely not change a lot. If we hope to carry part of the user base, we
> > will also inherit part of the stability expectations towards these
> > parts (especially APIs in akka-actor, akka-stream, akka-http, etc)
> >  * Some parts like akka-stream are stable and have a big API that
> > gives the impression that you could easily add more but which needs
> > careful vetting in many small detailed cases to keep maintenance
> > tractable.
> >  * Some parts like alpakka connectors have been contributed by a big,
> > diverse community (often one-time engagements) and are in different
> > states of code quality. Many one of those did not have any active
> > maintainer. Here it is important to set expectations and have low
> > hurdles for contributions.
> >  * Some parts like the clustering and persistence parts are relatively
> > complex and have complex test suites making contribution non-trivial.
> >
> > It will be a main task to figure out how to evolve such a complex
> > project and how to solve the friction between keeping stability but
> > also figuring out ways and places to evolve. The only way to get that
> > done is to find enough shoulders to spread the load. Some mechanism
> > like CODEOWNERS will be needed to figure out who is responsible (even
> > if overall ownership is shared, of course) for which part of the code.
> > Saying that everyone is responsible for everything as a whole is not
> > realistic. It's also not a realistic expectation for anyone to be able
> > to keep track of everything that might go on in all parts of the code.
> >
> > I would propose to identify parts of the whole project that are
> > sufficiently standalone, define expectations for each part, and let
> > the committers divide themselves between those subprojects. Then after
> > a release (or periodically) review if there are enough people
> > available for every part of the project and see how to improve. That
> > said, I think we should keep the amount of policies small and leave
> > room for flexibility where needed.
> >
> > I would not move away from review then commit which seems to be the
> > accepted standard in the existing community but maybe a single
> > reviewer will suffice. (Not sure what that means about PMC's vs
> > regular committer's votes. Will we need/have lots of PMCs to make that
> > work?)
> >
> > Johannes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 10:57 PM Justin Mclean <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > > Please pardon my ignorance of the details of common Apache processes,
> > > > I guess this proposal is modeled after existing Apache projects.
> > >
> > > There is no ASF requirements for this process, and each project can
> > decide what it should be. That being said, most projects select CTR (commit
> > then review). Having an RTC (review then commit) style process, especially
> > requiring two approvals, seems unnecessary to me. I would try and keep it
> > as simple as possible and reduce the number of rules. The more complex you
> > make this , the less likely the project will attract new committers or will
> > exclude groups of committers.
> > >
> > > > Are there existing Apache Projects that we could take as an example?
> > > > (E.g. Kafka?
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Contributing+Code+Changes
> > )
> > >
> > > I would avoid emulating projects like Kafka, that encourage a high
> > committer bar. They are the exception in how ASF projects operate rather
> > than what is typical of an Apache project.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Justin
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> >
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