On another note, Scala 3.3-RC4 just came out and assuming there are no problems then a full release will be made roughly end of April (see https://contributors.scala-lang.org/t/3-3-0-release-thread/6079/5)
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 5:15 PM kerr <hepin1...@gmail.com> wrote: > Akka just bump to 3.2.2 > > 何品 > > > Jean-Luc Deprez <jeanluc.dep...@gmail.com> 于2023年4月19日周三 16:00写道： > > > Those craving stability won't judge you for jumping to an LTS. Those on > > Scala 3 already are not those craving stability, hence would typically > not > > worry too much about having to jump to 3.3. > > > > So I think you get away with that. > > > > On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 9:35 AM Claude Warren, Jr > > <claude.war...@aiven.io.invalid> wrote: > > > > > My suggestion is go with the LTS version unless there is a conflict > with > > a > > > dependency. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 3:58 PM Matthew Benedict de Detrich > > > <matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > As we are finding out from the conversation in > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-pekko/pull/273 (A PR that > involves > > > > updating Jackson version due to CVE's/other complications which > forces > > an > > > > update to Scala 3.2 due to Jackson 2.14.2 only supporting Scala 3.1) > a > > > lot > > > > of the source/compiler warnings are from Scala 3.2, not Scala 3.3. > > > > > > > > If the PR lands, this means that the argument for avoiding updating > to > > > > Scala 3.3 due to syntax/source incompatibilities is weaker since we > are > > > > already forced to do the most of the same changes anyways. > Furthermore > > as > > > > can be seen from Jackson 2.14.2 not supporting older Scala 3 versions > > it > > > > appears that some of the critical parts of the ecosystem are updating > > > Scala > > > > 3 as it releases new minor versions rather than leaving it at older > > > > versions. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 4:15 PM Matthew Benedict de Detrich < > > > > matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Good point also about 2.12 compatibility. It will become harder > to > > > > > support multiple Scala version the more the allowed syntax differs. > > > > > > > > > > The reason why I did the PR was to actually confirm/deny whether > this > > > is > > > > > an issue, as shown in the PR its a non issue (assuming that Scala > 3.3 > > > > > doesn't add anything more between RC3 and release which is quite > > > likely) > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 3:52 PM Johannes Rudolph < > > > > > johannes.rudo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Just for the record, I also said not to do anything right now > about > > it > > > > :) > > > > >> > > > > >> Other than that, I mostly agree with Nicolas. Unless we are forced > > to > > > > >> update Scala 3 we should *not* do it right now. The situation > might > > > > >> change in 6-12 months with widespread adoption to Scala 3.3 we > might > > > > >> just do it (because everyone does by then and updates will only be > > > > >> available for 3.3 at some point in the future). > > > > >> > > > > >> Good point also about 2.12 compatibility. It will become harder to > > > > >> support multiple Scala version the more the allowed syntax > differs. > > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 1:31 PM Matthew Benedict de Detrich > > > > >> <matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io.invalid> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > One precondition to upgrade to newer versions of Scala 3 would > > be > > > > >> dropping > > > > >> > support for Scala 2.12. > > > > >> > Scala 2.13 at least has support for some of the Scala 3 Syntax > > with > > > > >> > compiler flags to cross compile. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Are you talking about support on artifact level or on syntax > > level? > > > > >> Afaik > > > > >> > there isn't any plan for Scala 3.3 to drop support for Scala > 2.13 > > > > >> artifacts > > > > >> > (artifacts are completely separated from supported syntax). If > we > > > are > > > > >> > talking about a hypothetical Scala 3 user of Pekko, the Scala3 > > > syntax > > > > >> that > > > > >> > Pekko happens to use will be irrelevant here. In other words, > if a > > > > user > > > > >> is > > > > >> > upgrading from Scala 3.1/Scala 3.2 to Scala 3.3 then they will > > have > > > to > > > > >> > upgrade the syntax of the source code irrespective of Pekko. If > we > > > are > > > > >> > talking about difficulties of cross compiling for Scala 3/Scala > 2 > > > > within > > > > >> > Pekko itself I think we would have to see if there are any > syntax > > > > >> breaking > > > > >> > changes in this regard (I didn't see any for Scala 3.3 but I may > > > have > > > > >> > missed something). Since an RC for Scala 3.3 is out we can > pretty > > > > easily > > > > >> > figure out if this is going to be a problem right now. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I think what Johannes said here is important, which is that > > > currently > > > > >> there > > > > >> > aren't any users of Pekko Scala 3 and because of this we really > > > > >> shouldn't > > > > >> > overthink it. And even then, if we do release Pekko with Scala > 3.3 > > > and > > > > >> some > > > > >> > hypothetical user is going to have problems because they haven't > > > > >> upgrade to > > > > >> > Scala 3.3 yet, they can easily use the Pekko Scala 2.13 artifact > > and > > > > >> since > > > > >> > we are not using any bespoke Scala 3 features in Pekko currently > > on > > > a > > > > >> > source level the user is actually not going to notice any > > > difference. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 1:18 PM Nicolas Vollmar < > > nvoll...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > IMHO we should use the lowest supported version of Scala 3 to > > not > > > > >> force > > > > >> > > user to upgrade to newer versions. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Scala 3 continues to deprecate old syntax. Some of it will > > produce > > > > >> warnings > > > > >> > > in Scala 3.2 and may be removed in 3.3 or later. > > > > >> > > For example > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://dotty.epfl.ch/docs/reference/dropped-features/package-objects.html > > > > >> > > or > > > > https://dotty.epfl.ch/docs/reference/changed-features/imports.html > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > One precondition to upgrade to newer versions of Scala 3 would > > be > > > > >> dropping > > > > >> > > support for Scala 2.12. > > > > >> > > Scala 2.13 at least has support for some of the Scala 3 Syntax > > > with > > > > >> > > compiler flags to cross compile. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 at 10:26, Matthew Benedict de Detrich > > > > >> > > <matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io.invalid> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > So some discussions on github are popping up regarding which > > > > Scala 3 > > > > >> > > > version we should pick so I think it's time to discuss this > > > > >> formally on > > > > >> > > the > > > > >> > > > mailing list. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > As a precursor one thing people need to understand is that > the > > > > >> Scala 3 > > > > >> > > > release cycle has changed, quoting from > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-pekko/issues/6#issuecomment-1302701657 > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Scala 2 used epoch.major.minor version convention. Scala 3 > > has > > > > >> > > > major.minor.patch. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > So there is no 3.0/3.1/3.2/etc cross-compilation - the > > > > assumption > > > > >> is > > > > >> > > > that: > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > * you can compile against the same minor version with > > > backward- > > > > >> and > > > > >> > > > forward-compatibility: 3.1.3 dependency against 3.1.0 code, > > > 3.0.0 > > > > >> > > > dependency against 3.0.1 code, etc > > > > >> > > > > * within the same major version you always have > > > > >> backward-compatibility: > > > > >> > > > 3.1.3 dependency can be used in 3.1.3 project, but also > 3.2.0 > > > > >> project and > > > > >> > > > in future against 3.3.0 project > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > This means that if we pick a Scala version, we are > essentially > > > > >> forcing > > > > >> > > the > > > > >> > > > potential Scala 3 users of Pekko to bump their Scala 3 > version > > > to > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > minor > > > > >> > > > that we decide on. On surface value this means that we > should > > > pick > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > > lowest Scala 3 minor version that we can support however > there > > > is > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > fact > > > > >> > > > that Scala 3.3 is going to come out soon which will be an > LTS > > > > >> release. > > > > >> > > The > > > > >> > > > LTS release means that if any bugs are found after Scala 3.3 > > > for a > > > > >> period > > > > >> > > > of 2 years, they will be backported to Scala 3.3. The big > > > > advantage > > > > >> this > > > > >> > > > brings us, is that it allows us to freely bump Scala 3.3 > > without > > > > >> breaking > > > > >> > > > our users if any potential bugs are found in the future. If > we > > > > >> decide to > > > > >> > > > stick with Scala 3.2 or 3.1 and some bug is found in Scala 3 > > > later > > > > >> on > > > > >> > > that > > > > >> > > > affects us, we will have to update to a version of Scala 3 > > that > > > > will > > > > >> > > break > > > > >> > > > binary compatibility. This facet is of even more importance > > when > > > > >> > > > considering our 1.0.x release branches, which are designed > to > > > > never > > > > >> break > > > > >> > > > binary/backwards compatibility, i.e. if we do 1.0.x releases > > > with > > > > >> Scala > > > > >> > > > 3.1/3.2 and some critical bug/CVE comes out later we could > > > > >> potentially be > > > > >> > > > forced to update the minor version which would break this > > > > >> > > binary/backwards > > > > >> > > > compatibility, this wouldn't be the case with Scala 3.3 > (for a > > > > >> certain > > > > >> > > > period of time). > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Of course the counter argument to using Scala 3.3 is that it > > > would > > > > >> force > > > > >> > > > all potential Pekko users (and the transitive set of Scala 3 > > > > >> libraries > > > > >> > > for > > > > >> > > > that Pekko user) to also use/support Scala 3.3. > Unfortunately > > > its > > > > >> not > > > > >> > > > possible to get download stats from Sonatype for artifacts > you > > > > don't > > > > >> > > > maintain, but I wouldn't say its a controversial statement > > that > > > > the > > > > >> > > amount > > > > >> > > > of people that use Akka long with Scala 3 would be a tiny > > > minority > > > > >> (this > > > > >> > > is > > > > >> > > > also regarding other factors, i.e. the typical demographic > of > > > Akka > > > > >> > > users). > > > > >> > > > Ontop of this we need to take into account the delay of > > current > > > > Akka > > > > >> > > users > > > > >> > > > migrating to Pekko, in other words by the time people > migrate > > to > > > > >> using > > > > >> > > > Pekko the fact that its using Scala 3.3 LTS would likely be > a > > > non > > > > >> concern > > > > >> > > > at that point in time. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > And finally another thing to note is that even in the worst > > case > > > > >> > > scenario, > > > > >> > > > nothing is stopping users from using Scala 2 artifacts from > > > within > > > > >> Scala > > > > >> > > 3 > > > > >> > > > (this is perfectly supported and has been for a while). > Afaik > > > the > > > > >> current > > > > >> > > > Scala 3 version of Akka/Pekko is not using any > unique/bespoke > > > > >> features of > > > > >> > > > Scala 3, if true this would mean from a Scala 3 user > > perspective > > > > >> there > > > > >> > > > really isn't going to be > > > > >> > > > a difference in using a Scala 2 artifact vs Scala 3 > artifact. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > For these reasons my recommendation would be, assuming that > > the > > > > full > > > > >> > > > release of Scala 3.3 LTS is ready by the time we decide to > > make > > > a > > > > >> release > > > > >> > > > that we should try and target that. For details on the > current > > > > >> release > > > > >> > > > schedule for Scala 3.3 LTS you can read > > > > >> > > > > > > https://contributors.scala-lang.org/t/3-3-0-release-thread/6079/3 > > > > . > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > -- > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Matthew de Detrich > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > *m:* +491603708037 > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > -- > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Matthew de Detrich > > > > >> > > > > > >> > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen > > > > >> > > > > > >> > *m:* +491603708037 > > > > >> > > > > > >> > *w:* aiven.io *e:* matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io > > > > >> > > > > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@pekko.apache.org > > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@pekko.apache.org > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Matthew de Detrich > > > > > > > > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > > > > > > > > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin > > > > > > > > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B > > > > > > > > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen > > > > > > > > > > *m:* +491603708037 > > > > > > > > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Matthew de Detrich > > > > > > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > > > > > > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin > > > > > > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B > > > > > > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen > > > > > > > > *m:* +491603708037 > > > > > > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io > > > > > > > > > > -- Matthew de Detrich *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen *m:* +491603708037 *w:* aiven.io *e:* matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io
