Hi Yufei Thanks for the update !
I will do a new pass on the doc. Regards JB On Thu, Jan 2, 2025 at 8:30 PM Yufei Gu <flyrain...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Happy New Year! I hope you all had a wonderful and refreshing break. > > Following our previous discussions, we have decided to use separated policy > entities(option 2) for table maintenance. I've outlined the detailed design > here, > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kIiVkFFg9tPa5SH70b9WwzbmclrzH3qWHKfCKXw5lbs/edit?usp=sharing. > It is based on the previous design with a wider scope for policy management. > > I’d love to hear your thoughts, feedback, or suggestions, so feel free to > review and share your input. > > Yufei > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 5:43 PM Yufei Gu <flyrain...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > Thank you all for taking the time to meet! Here’s a summary of our > > discussion: > > > > 1. *Challenges with Storing Policies as Properties (Option 1):* > > - We identified scalability limitations for access control in this > > approach. > > 2. *Benefits of Using Separate Policy Entities (Option 2):* > > - This approach offers a more generic solution with improved access > > control and better performance. > > - This approach could apply to a variety of use cases, like column > > masking. > > - There are certain agreements on this approach. > > 3. *Other Options Considered:* > > - Storing policies as Polaris entity properties or using a 1:1 > > mapping of policy entities with catalog/namespace/table entities. > > - While slightly different from Option 1, these approaches still > > present notable drawbacks similar to option 1. > > 4. *Option to Delegate Policy Storage to TMS:* > > - We discussed the possibility of not storing any policies in > > Polaris, allowing TMS to manage all policies. > > - However, the proposed approach aims to promote interoperability > > across engines and systems like TMS, without preventing them from > > having > > their own rules or policies. > > > > > > Please let me know if I missed anything or if further clarifications are > > needed. > > > > > > > > Yufei > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 2:37 PM Omar Al-Safi <o...@oalsafi.com> wrote: > > > >> Thank you Yufei for the flexibility! > >> > >> Regards, > >> Omar > >> > >> On Wed, 4 Dec 2024, 23:12 Yufei Gu, <flyrain...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > I've rescheduled it to next Monday due to the availability. Sorry for > >> > any inconvenience. FYI, I will not record it as I don't have a > >> > premium google account yet. > >> > > >> > Table maintenance in Polaris > >> > Monday, December 9 · 9:00 – 10:00am > >> > Time zone: America/Los_Angeles > >> > Google Meet joining info > >> > Video call link: https://meet.google.com/dix-cdfm-pve > >> > > >> > Yufei > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 1:15 AM Omar Al-Safi <o...@oalsafi.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Thank you Yufei for getting this moving. > >> > > > >> > > Unfortunately tomorrow I won't be able to make it plus I think a > >> couple > >> > of > >> > > guys are at reinvent (JB for example), would it make sense to > >> reschedule > >> > to > >> > > early next week? Or maybe have it recorded. > >> > > As I highlighted in the document, I am feeling embedding the policies > >> > into > >> > > Polaris feels more of TMS concern rather than Polaris concern. > >> Unless, we > >> > > provide a way to have pluggable policies where you can either rely on > >> > > Polaris to store the polices or the pluggable implementation would > >> handle > >> > > how that can be stored, which I think fits well in both worlds. > >> > > > >> > > Regards, > >> > > Omar > >> > > > >> > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 10:26 PM Yufei Gu <flyrain...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > Sorry the meeting title is misleading, the meeting itself is > >> scheduled > >> > on > >> > > > Dec. 5th. Thanks Anurag for pointing that out. > >> > > > > >> > > > Table maintenance in Polaris > >> > > > Thursday, December 5 · 9:00 – 10:00am > >> > > > Time zone: America/Los_Angeles > >> > > > Google Meet joining info > >> > > > Video call link: https://meet.google.com/dix-cdfm-pve > >> > > > > >> > > > Yufei > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 12:32 PM Anurag Mantripragada > >> > > > <amantriprag...@apple.com.invalid> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks Yufei, I think you meant Thursday, December 5th 9:00am – > >> > 10:00am > >> > > > > (GMT-08). > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Anurag Mantripragada > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Dec 3, 2024, at 11:33 AM, Yufei Gu <flyrain...@gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Folks, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > We’ve made some adjustments to the design, moving from *Option > >> 1* > >> > to > >> > > > > *Option > >> > > > > > 2*: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. *Option 1:* Store maintenance policies in > >> > > catalog/namespace/table > >> > > > > > properties. > >> > > > > > 2. *Option 2:* Store maintenance policies as separate > >> entities. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > The key concern with Option 1 is that the access control model > >> > isn't > >> > > > > > scalable. On the other hand, Option 2 provides greater > >> flexibility, > >> > > > > > improved privilege enforcement, and better overall performance. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I’ve updated the design document with the latest changes, which > >> you > >> > > can > >> > > > > > find here: Updated Design Document > >> > > > > > < > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Pd_mzZcfvnUvcH98IbwsIYf4eryet1lQDfclKYx-t-M/edit?usp=sharing > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > . > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > To discuss this design change in detail, I’ll be hosting a > >> session > >> > on > >> > > > > > Thursday. Please find the meeting details below: > >> > > > > > Table maintenance in Polaris @ Thu, Nov 7, 2024 9:00am – 10:00am > >> > > > (GMT-08) > >> > > > > > Thursday, December 5 · 9:00 – 10:00am > >> > > > > > Time zone: America/Los_Angeles > >> > > > > > Google Meet joining info > >> > > > > > Video call link: https://meet.google.com/dix-cdfm-pve > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Feel free to review the updated document ahead of the session. > >> > > Looking > >> > > > > > forward to your thoughts and feedback during the meeting! > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Yufei > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Mon, Nov 18, 2024 at 9:43 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > >> > > j...@nanthrax.net> > >> > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Hi Yufei > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> Not sure we got consensus in all details but the overall > >> picture > >> > is > >> > > ok > >> > > > > for > >> > > > > >> me. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> Let’s continue the details definition in the PR. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> Thanks ! > >> > > > > >> Regards > >> > > > > >> JB > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> Le jeu. 14 nov. 2024 à 02:39, Yufei Gu <flyrain...@gmail.com> > >> a > >> > > > écrit : > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >>> Hi everyone, > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> Thank you for joining the table maintenance discussion today! > >> We > >> > > made > >> > > > > >>> significant progress, and here are the key takeaways: > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> 1. Clarified furthermore and reached consensus on > >> introducing > >> > > table > >> > > > > >>> maintenance properties in Polaris to support for different > >> TMS > >> > > and > >> > > > > >>> promote > >> > > > > >>> interoperability. > >> > > > > >>> 2. Agreed to proceed with Option 1, which stores metadata as > >> > > > > >>> catalog/namespace/table properties. > >> > > > > >>> 3. Confirmed the new privileges to ensure that maintenance > >> > > > properties > >> > > > > >>> are safeguarded from being altered by clients with existing > >> > write > >> > > > > >>> access. > >> > > > > >>> 4. Briefly discussed the support for customized maintenance > >> > > > policies > >> > > > > . > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> Next step: > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> 1. Will file maintenance properties related PRs per design > >> > > > > >>> 2. Will add more details for customized policy support. > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> *Note*: Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to record the meeting > >> due to > >> > > the > >> > > > > >> need > >> > > > > >>> for a Google premium account. > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> Yufei > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 10:10 AM Omar Al-Safi < > >> o...@oalsafi.com> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>>> Thank you! Will try to be there > >> > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > >>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024, 18:55 Yufei Gu, <flyrain...@gmail.com> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > >>>>> Hi Omar, I sent the invitation to dev@polaris.apache.org, > >> as > >> > > well > >> > > > as > >> > > > > >>>> your > >> > > > > >>>>> email address. > >> > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>> Yufei > >> > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 9:51 AM Omar Al-Safi < > >> o...@oalsafi.com > >> > > > >> > > > > >> wrote: > >> > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>> Thanks Yufei, is it possible to send the invitation to the > >> > > > > >>>>>> Polaris google group? > >> > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>> Regards, > >> > > > > >>>>>> Omar > >> > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 6:48 PM Yufei Gu < > >> > flyrain...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >>> wrote: > >> > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> Hi folks, > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> We are going to have another sync for table maintenance in > >> > > > > >> Polaris > >> > > > > >>>> per > >> > > > > >>>>>>> discussion with JB. Here are meeting details: > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> Polaris Table maintenance sync > >> > > > > >>>>>>> Wednesday, November 13 · 10:00 – 11:00am > >> > > > > >>>>>>> Time zone: America/Los_Angeles > >> > > > > >>>>>>> Google Meet joining info > >> > > > > >>>>>>> Video call link: https://meet.google.com/nyy-ahmn-jqd > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> Yufei > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 5:23 PM Yufei Gu < > >> > flyrain...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >>>> wrote: > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> Thanks everyone for joining the discussion. Sorry I > >> couldn't > >> > > > > >>> record > >> > > > > >>>>> the > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> session due to a tech issue. Here are meeting notes: > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 1. We discussed the boundary between Polaris and the > >> Table > >> > > > > >>>>>> Maintenance > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> System(TMS). We agreed that they should be separated > >> > > > > >> systems. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 2. A general agreement on the minimal metadata added to > >> > > > > >>> Polaris > >> > > > > >>>> to > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> support TMS, focusing on essential data needed for > >> > > > > >>>>> interoperability. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 3. A general consensus on option 1 to store metadata as > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> catalog/namespace/table properties. We could introduce > >> > > > > >> policy > >> > > > > >>>>>>> entities in > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> the future for other use cases, like column masking. > >> Will > >> > > > > >>>> address > >> > > > > >>>>>> two > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> feedbacks: > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 1. Caching the table properties in the catalog to > >> > reduce > >> > > > > >> IO > >> > > > > >>>>> cost. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 2. Introducing new permissions for table maintenance > >> > > > > >>> related > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> metadata to prevent any clients with the write > >> > permission > >> > > > > >>> to > >> > > > > >>>>> mess > >> > > > > >>>>>>> up with > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> them. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 4. Briefly touched on the communication module between > >> TMS > >> > > > > >> and > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> Polaris, as a long-term plan, an event system from > >> Polaris > >> > > > > >> is > >> > > > > >>>>>>> necessary, > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> not only benefits TMS, but also benefits other systems > >> > which > >> > > > > >>>>> consume > >> > > > > >>>>>>> change > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> from Polaris. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> Next Steps: > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 1. Implement metadata storage as properties > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 1. Design detailed schema for properties > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 2. Figure out a way to be extensible for future > >> > > > > >> maintenance > >> > > > > >>>>>> policy > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> or customized policies. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 3. Add new permissions for new properties > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> 2. Begin planning for event system > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> Yufei > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:25 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > >> > > > > >>>>> j...@nanthrax.net> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi Yufei > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks for scheduling this ! > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> I should be able to join. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> For the community, will you be able to record ? > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Regards > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> JB > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 10:40 PM Yufei Gu < > >> > > > > >> flyrain...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Folks, > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I've scheduled a community sync to discuss table > >> > maintenance > >> > > > > >>> in > >> > > > > >>>>>>> Polaris > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> this Thursday at 9 AM PST. Since we didn’t have a > >> chance > >> > to > >> > > > > >>> dive > >> > > > > >>>>>> into > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> this > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> topic during our last sync, this will be a dedicated > >> > session > >> > > > > >>> to > >> > > > > >>>>>> cover > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> it in > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> detail. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Updates to Note:* I've made some updates to the design > >> > > > > >>>> document, > >> > > > > >>>>>>> with a > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> particular focus on the approach for maintenance > >> metadata. > >> > > > > >> The > >> > > > > >>>>>>> document > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> now > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> favors *Option 1*, which involves leveraging table, > >> > > > > >> namespace, > >> > > > > >>>> and > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> catalog > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> properties for maintenance metadata. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Please review the latest version of the design doc > >> before > >> > > > > >> the > >> > > > > >>>>>> meeting, > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> as > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it will help us streamline the discussion. > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to everyone’s insights! > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Video call link: https://meet.google.com/opc-vath-mgb > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Design doc: > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Pd_mzZcfvnUvcH98IbwsIYf4eryet1lQDfclKYx-t-M/edit?usp=sharing > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> < > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Pd_mzZcfvnUvcH98IbwsIYf4eryet1lQDfclKYx-t-M/edit?usp%3Dsharing&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw2V3IjIcadea8miDcKKSG9I > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Yufei > >> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >
