Hi Martin,
Martin Hollmichel schrieb:
Hi Goetz,
I did some changes to
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pdf_Import_Extension/Announcement
to make clear that the main feature that is ready now to release the
hybrid PDF format.
I agree that we should stronger emphasize the hybrid feature but I think
the abstract sounds somehow confusing because the "PDF Import Extension
... enables the PDF export into a hybrid PDF file." Why is the name then
"PDF Import" and not "Hybrid PDF Export"? Let's try to balance that a
bit better.
I would start with an explanation what the extension does, highlight the
main benefit (which is the 100% layout accuracy with hybrid PDF) and add
the PDF Import capabilities for non-hybrid files. The good news is that
the Export to "hybrid file" in the PDF export dialog does not say "PDF
hybrid". So we can start promoting a "PDF/ODF hybrid file" which couples
ODF and PDF which is much better than just a "PDF hybrid file".
--
Abstract:
The PDF Import Extension allows you to import and modify PDF documents.
Best results with 100% layout accuracy can be achieved with the "PDF/ODF
hybrid file" format, which this extension also enables. A hybrid PDF/ODF
file is a PDF file that contains an embedded ODF source file. Hybrid
PDF/ODF files will be opened in OpenOffice.org as an ODF file without
any layout changes. Users without this extension can open the PDF part
of the hybrid file with their PDF viewer.
The PDF Import Extension also allows you to import and modify PDF
documents for non hybrid PDF/ODF files. PDF documents are imported in
Draw to preserve the layout and to allow basic editing. This is the
perfect solution for changing dates, numbers or small portions of text
with a minimum loss of formatting information for simple formatted
documents.
--
Let's start working on the longer product description incl. features
etc. if this is the right direction. What do you think?
Thanks,
Goetz
P.S.: The Release Notes on the Wiki should not be published in the
Extension Repository but in the Update Notification, right?
additionally we're able to import raw PDF files. In this area we have
known issues and we'll not be a full replacement for layout programs.
so I would define as release criteria for 1.0:
* hybrid PDF needs to work for all Ooo application
* native PDF import has known limitations
Martin
Goetz Wohlberg wrote:
Hi,
Malte made a very good point. The PDF Import Extension has two main
features. One is the PDF Import and the second is the Hybrid PDF.
Hybrid PDF is clearly ready for prime time and was already in Beta.
You could argue that Hybrid PDF with OpenOffice.org is actually the
better PDF as the PDF round trip is now possible with this extension.
When I look at the feature list, PDF import made significant progress.
For example I think opening password-protected PDF files is pretty
cool. Of course there will always be PDF documents that can't be
imported accurately as PDF is not designed for editing. And we also
can't compete yet with PDF Editors based on OCR technology. But those
apps can't compete with our price ;.) and don't have Hybrid PDF.
Stefan mentioned that users might be disappointed when they try the
"final" PDF Import extension. This is a valid point. To set the right
expectation we created the feature list and the list of non supported
features. Users now have a chance to read first what they can expect.
You could argue that we should implement feature xyz first and then
call it "Final". I'm sure that we find even more features if we have
done so. And there is one more point I'd like to make. There are a
number of users that don't touch Beta versions. This extension is in
Beta for one year now! So it's time that a few more users try PDF
editing and learn about Hybrid PDF!
With the recent improvements in PDF editing, the mature Hybrid PDF
feature and the list of supported and non support features I think
it's time for a PDF Import Extension 1.0.
Goetz
Malte Timmermann schrieb:
If you integrate PDF import into OOo, users might start thinking that
PDF would be just an other document format, and maybe start complaining
why certain documents don't work.
They will see PDF as "yet an other document format" because they can use
file/open - how bad!
IMHO, file/open should only work with hybrid PDF files, where the ODF is
included, but not for normal PDF. Normal PDF should work via import.
IIRC, the reason that you can use hybrid PDF only when import PDF
extension is installed was that UX said people wouldn't understand that
they sometimes can use file/open for PDF, sometimes not.
Might be difficult to explain to the user, not sure, but I would have
preferred to always have the Hybrid PDF feature, since this is _not_
related to PDF import.
Hybrid PDF is a great feature and full reliable.
PDF import will never have nearly the same quality for all kind of PDF
documents that only the OCR programs with PDF support have nowadays.
To be honest, I never would have started Import PDF at all...
But if you plan the pre-install it anyway, please keep in mind that it
brings xpdf with it. A third party library which has to be updated quite
frequently, because of security issues...
Just my 2 cents,
Malte.
Martin Hollmichel wrote, On 06/12/09 14:24:
Hi,
the situation is not easy: some people are sying, the PDF import
should already be integrated with the OpenOffice.org product and
others are complaining that the import does not fulfil their
expectations (in some cases). How do we come to an agreement on how
to proceed ?
Martin
Stefan Weigel wrote:
Hi,
Martin Hollmichel schrieb:
I would like ask you to review the Feature List on
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pdf_Import_Extension/Announcement
and specify either concrete issues or features of what you think
that should be in a 1.0 release.
I had already been looking at the Feature List. However, korrect
positioning of text and graphics is not on this list. I guess this
is self-evident and not to be mentioned explicitly.
The example files given in the issue are unusable after importing
by the PDF Import Extension, because of heavy displacement of text
and graphic objects. I could deliver countless PDF documents from
different sources that suffer the same. This is definitely
something one would *not* expect from a peace of software that
passed the beta phase and became Version 1.0.
Sorry, I am not an expert enough in order to specify this more
concrete. But what I can say for sure: I did get frequent
complaints from disappointed users that had been trying PDF Import
full of expectation after it had been greatly announced some months
ago. The announcements did not always mention the beta status. What
I fear now is a new wave of complaints when the extension is
declared to have left beta stadium now, but still most of the PDF
documents out in the wild will not be readable or usable after
opening with OOo.
I personally do not need PDF import at all. So I wouldn´t care. But
for the sake of the project´s reputation I would suggest *not* to
claim that OOo is generally able to open PDF files. I would suggest
to name it "still working on this feature".
Regards
Stefan
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