Hi Carlos, I don't know if the "Apache Way" is a problem here. So far I think we have heard opinions and concerns but AFAICT no hard policy has been quoted that prevents having royale.a.o point to WP.com.
But I am still unclear if hosting our site on WP is really the best strategy. I have the following concerns: 1) How would be include a Royale application in our site? 2) How would we style the Royale application to look consistent with the rest of the site? 3) Could we ever create a theme based on this styling? I didn't, and still don't, understand how WP themes and their licensing work, otherwise I think I would have asked more questions up front. I thought you would own copyright on the results, just like using Adobe Dreamweaver and Adobe Illustrator to build out a site doesn't put the content under Adobe licensing. That doesn't appear to be the case here, but I think we do need to consider the 3 concerns I've listed. Both you and Harbs claim that replicating your prototype's look and feel will be a lot of work, but how much work are really talking about, and do we have to exactly replicate it (and should we)? If you think about how Royale components are created, they work with some default CSS. I think if we implement themes, we'll end up with components with particular "sub-DOMs" and CSS that dictates the visuals on those sub-DOMs. AIUI, we are expecting artwork from some designers about other default looks for Royale components. Won't we be facing a similar challenge of trying to figure out the CSS that best matches what we see on a screen? So, I think it is great that WP and MoveDo helped you create this fantastic looking prototype. But, IMO, one direction we can go from here is to try to replicate the visuals you created in CSS in a way that can be re-used via the Apache Way. I think we'd learn about themes as we try to do that. Could we get most of the way there in a couple of days? Then others can offer fine-tuning via patches. And yes, WP is tuned towards templated content in a consistent way, but it would be interesting to build Royale components that do something similar. Thoughts? -Alex On 10/26/17, 1:12 AM, "[email protected] on behalf of Carlos Rovira" <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected]> wrote: >Harbs is right, > >to get something that looks cool and consistent is difficult and for this >reason I use wordpress+theme (in this case movedo). Is the same thing as >why people use flex or royale. Is the way to start from a point where you >are more efficient and maintenance can be assumed. > >Alex, you see lots of difference since I customized via movedo interface >but as well did some tweaks in custom css (for example the footer column >menus) > >So could we rework the site without wp and movedo. Sure, as I stated all >sites can be write in different ways, but the long term reason to adopt a >CMS like WP is to have a backend to introduce content of quality in the >most easy way while preserving quality on presentation (styles, fonts, >effects...) > >I think we are in a situation where "the Apache way" fails completely >since >we should be able to make this quick and easy and concentrate in our >Royale >code, that is why we are here, and why I tried to go this path: to get >something that looks good and professional but to spend very few time for >our part. > >I'm very pragmatic, and like to go to the point. All Apache rules should >be >focused in protect the code we release, and we should have less trouble >with tools like WP, Jira, Nexus, and the rest. In fact Apache is using >those tools all along the way, why is so hard to do this? > >We only need: > >* Some host for a Wordpress instance: this could be the current >Codeoscopic >subdomain or whatever people like. I'd be more happy if the wp instance is >in some server that could be controlled and maintained by ASF. I don't >know >if this could be WP.com or some ASF's virtual machine that could host >that. > >* The Movedo theme: I write to Dimitri, from greatives. He is very >supportive and very like the idea, but is not in their hands. He point me >to talk with envato, and I write to them, but still doesn't have a >response. My thinking here is that we really don't need nothing of this. >Envato could donate a license but is only 59$, so is something affordable >by a simple donation. > >* Finaly to generate an static site from WP. This is as well not needed, >but we can do it. People use to generate wp static version in order to >protect their sites from hacking. That's the only relevant point to do >this. So for me is something we can do if the rest of community wants it. >Is very easy to do. > > >Additionaly: As we are not uploading any website code to any ASF repo, >since as I said, it would be like to upload the JIRA source code to our >repos, and that doesn't give us anything (we're here to release only >apache >royale code). we can : > >1.- Use the royale.codeoscopic.com wp instance as the tool for us to >modify >the site (people in our community will have user/pass in this wp instance >to create post and pages) >(in this way is similar to the server Alex had on his own to make some >apache flex task, correct me if I'm wrong) >Again, it can be royale.codeoscopic.com or other hosting ASF wants. > >2.- Each time something changes: generate static site and deploy to >royale.apache.org >(in this case the set of static generated html/js/css could not be >uploaded >to any ASF repo since we don't want to release the website code, that must >be served in the same way ASF serves JIRA, or whatever other commercial >tool > >Hosting a generated site with a movedo commercial theme needs of a 59$ >license that could be donated by envato or donated for other >person/company >(for example Codeoscopic) > >For me this is quick and easy and I think we're not making something wrong >in legal terms > >Carlos > > > > > > > >2017-10-26 9:24 GMT+02:00 Harbs <[email protected]>: > >> It’s using greatives’ CSS and JS files for styling, layout and effects. >> >> Generally, these themes have a lot of flexibility to change the look of >>a >> site without messing with CSS and JS. >> >> Can we re-write the CSS and JS to do the same kind of thing? Probably. >>But >> it would be a considerable amount of work. >> >> What’s included in the license? I’m really not sure. >> >> It gives rights to us the theme in WordPress. Does that allow >>repurposing >> the CSS and JS files for use elsewhere? I don’t know. >> >> Harbs >> >> > On Oct 26, 2017, at 9:56 AM, Alex Harui <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > I'm still confused about something. >> > >> > Can someone explain how creativity and licensing are interconnected? >> I'm not familiar with WP themes, but I think they are templates with >> placeholders for particular aspects of a web page/blog. I've been told >> that this Royale site prototype is based on the Movedo theme. When I >> searched for it on the internet I ended up here: >>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgreatives >>.eu%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b344 >>38794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=VI0EOLywsaxbKgmhAe >>F08cdZNQjcgtIjyFvJ2R33hlo%3D&reserved=0 >> themeforest/themeswitcher/?product=movedo#movedo >> > >> > It doesn't look at all like the prototype at >> >>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Froyale.co >>deoscopic.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b >>5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=3GHfDzdFp6B >>4RQMLuP00jKAHmwQ1QMubUd4dgz3FdTA%3D&reserved=0. Maybe the menu bar >>along the top? >> > >> > So what did we license from greatives? Can Carlos or someone else >>try >> to reproduce the prototype without looking at the current CSS and maybe >>use >> AL licensed fonts or something like that? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > -Alex >> > >> > From: Dave Fisher >><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> > Reply-To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> > Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 11:06 AM >> > To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> > Subject: Re: Apache Royale static web site >> > >> > Hi Alex, >> > >> > We will need to ask Carlos to list out all of the themes he uses and >> then we will need to track things down and ask questions. >> > >> > Here is the site for what looks like the main theme: >> >>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgreative >>s.ticksy.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b >>1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=KBxlYi2QO >>PDqNGhTsU6GJMhdUggdHVZjiYetcIcE8vE%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > It is the Move Do theme. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Dave >> > >> > On Oct 24, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Alex Harui <[email protected]< >> mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Dave, >> > >> > I'm still wondering, even if we can see and reuse the CSS/JS/HTML, do >>we >> have the rights to replicate use of that look-and-feel elsewhere? I >>don't >> understand who owns the creative content. >> > >> > Thoughts? >> > -Alex >> > >> > From: Dave Fisher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] >> ><mailto:[email protected]>> >> > Reply-To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto: >> [email protected]>> >> > Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 10:50 AM >> > To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto: >> [email protected]>> >> > Subject: Re: Apache Royale static web site >> > >> > Hi Alex, >> > >> > On Oct 24, 2017, at 10:43 AM, Alex Harui <[email protected]< >> mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>> >>wrote: >> > >> > There is something I don't think I understand. AIUI, at some point, >>we >> > will want the Apache Royale site to include actual Royale >>applications, >> > right? And I would think we would want the styling of those >>applications >> > to be consistent with the rest of the site. So I'm not clear how we >>will >> > be able to implement the styling/theme of these Royale applications >>if we >> > don't have rights to the styling. I don't understand how WP themes >>and >> > commercial licensing works if we want to replicate that user >>experience >> > outside of WP. >> > >> > We need to examine the static export of the CSS and HTML. >> > >> > >> > If we can use those visuals outside of WP, then why must we continue >>to >> > use WP to generate the site? I would hope the theme would be >>implemented >> > as CSS and some templates we could use without WP. >> > >> > We should be able to adapt. Site building in the CMS can get complex >>if >> needed. For >>OpenOffice.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A >>%2F%2FOpenOffice.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7 >>Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=m3Mv >>XfpJIZbB4u1Zhr0AB%2B%2BVI5uPKwu7N33MkPuovjs%3D&reserved=0><https://na01.s >>afelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FOpenOffice.org&data=02% >>7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de >>cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=m3MvXfpJIZbB4u1Zhr0AB%2B%2BVI5uPK >>wu7N33MkPuovjs%3D&reserved=0> >> we use the legacy html pulling out the title and content body and place >>it >> within a markdown template. >> > >> > >> > Also, if someone wants to patch the site, they can't just offer a >>patch >> of >> > the HTML right? They would need to figure out where in WP it comes >>from? >> > Is there a patch process for WP content? >> > >> > Possibly. >> > >> > >> > Sorry if there is some basic thing I am missing. >> > >> > It will get complex first as we figure out how to embed and then it >>will >> get simplified as we find the best way. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Dave >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks, >> > -Alex >> > >> > On 10/24/17, 10:19 AM, "[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> on behalf of >> Carlos >> > Rovira" >><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto: >> [email protected]> on behalf of >> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] >> ><mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > Thanks Dave, >> > >> > I'll write an email to trademarks to start with the process. I think >>is >> > better to migrate to >>WP.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FWP >>.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438 >>794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=pPTlG8DjwzO%2FN%2B0r >>euRRSegBNuKdtuonR2fro55wfgs%3D&reserved=0><https://na01.safelinks.protect >>ion.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FWP.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24e >>e2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023 >>931803217&sdata=pPTlG8DjwzO%2FN%2B0reuRRSegBNuKdtuonR2fro55wfgs%3D&reserv >>ed=0> before >> continue working on content so we can >> > detect whatever issue we could get. >> > >> > Thanks! >> > >> > Carlos >> > >> > >> > >> > 2017-10-24 18:56 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[email protected]<mailto: >> [email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>>: >> > >> > Hi Carlos, >> > >> > On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Carlos Rovira <[email protected]< >> mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > just let you know that I tried to create an static version of the >> > preview >> > site with success. I use this plugin : >> > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= >> https%3A%2F%2Fwordpres >> > >>s.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs.o >>rg%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b3443 >>8794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=6zrqW3l9%2BJqeOxjih >>uPWtMuguPsUDWnbqhyRxVXiTfI%3D&reserved=0>%2Fplugins%2Fsimply-static%2F&da >>ta=02%7C01%7C% >> 7Cb448363ee5984b3b3e0f >> > 08d51b0373f8%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de >> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636444624020033 >> > 702&sdata=RPTFT7Qq0bq1AKmh1fqnLuMJ0hWIpnrieARat1lz2bk%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > and we can generate all static content with relative or absolute urls. >> > The >> > final preview site in static is 134mb >> > >> > Another thing I was searching was to use a WP to Jekyll exporter but >> > this >> > is not what I wanted since it seems Jekyll is all about markdown and >> > we >> > want a full html site with all the eye candy JS+CSS resources. In the >> > end, >> > and thinking more about it, is not what we want since although the >> > site >> > would be exported ok, we don't want to upload it to the GitHub pages >> > like >> > we discusses in the other thread due to expose part of the code of a >> > commercial wp theme. >> > >> > So, the workflow we can use is: Use the WP backend to enter new >> > content >> > and >> > modify existing want with ease (this is important is we want people >> > contributing here). Next, with all changes done, generate a static >> > version >> > and replace the entire site with a fresh generated static site at >> > >>royale.apache.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http >>%3A%2F%2Froyale.apache.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51 >>c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&s >>data=QlbAmzJ21HAYHnJk6PhyGBH9%2Fp8e0afhsur%2B6uYGutU%3D&reserved=0>. and >>as well route the >> more friendly domain to this >> > if >> > board is ok with that. >> > >> > Yes! External domain >>royalysdk.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A% >>2F%2Froyalysdk.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496% >>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=Dmo >>CAUlAVHkkOp0uFdDH0%2FoUUU9qwdl00M8fWRe888Q%3D&reserved=0> is redirected >> to >>royale.apache.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http >>%3A%2F%2Froyale.apache.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51 >>c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&s >>data=QlbAmzJ21HAYHnJk6PhyGBH9%2Fp8e0afhsur%2B6uYGutU%3D&reserved=0> as >> > discussed. >> > >> > >> > We can check with apache board or trademarks what they propose about >> > to >> > create a >>Wordpress.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A% >>2F%2Fwordpress.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496% >>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=%2B >>xX2xQ5c8v87RU%2Fj94l28qKtyHtXlRTfyII%2FHRNDyoI%3D&reserved=0> account >>managed by Apache >> and migrate from my >> > server >> > to that account, and all this stuff from there, since if I remember >> > some >> > people said that would be more ok with Apache.I'd end removing my temp >> > subdomain after this. >> > >> > The advantage of using the >>Wordpress.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A% >>2F%2Fwordpress.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496% >>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=%2B >>xX2xQ5c8v87RU%2Fj94l28qKtyHtXlRTfyII%2FHRNDyoI%3D&reserved=0> >> location is twofold: >> > >> > (1) Wordpress keeps security up to date. >> > (2) If something happens to you or your company then we have better >> > access. >> > >> > I suspect though that with the status export method this will not be >>as >> > great a concern. >> > >> > >> > What do you think? Can I move this with the people we were talking >> > some >> > weeks ago? >> > >> > Either you or I can email Trademarks with the plan. >> > >> > We can then discuss the redirection with Infrastructure and get the >>site >> > checked in. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Dave >> > >> > >> > Let me know in order to start making the next steps >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Carlos Rovira >> > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= >> http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me% >> > 2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb448363ee5984b3b3e0f08d51b03 >> 73f8%7Cfa7b1 >> > b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636444624020033702& >> sdata=1q5B1u1lLR >> > HGdnDh8VH9pkaTkdCPk51wt%2FCUJgzQo0c%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= >> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codeo >> > >>scopic.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F% >>2Fscopic.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b >>1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=oG9idkXzU >>tg91G5vhl5P0Dn2u8gXX55UvN172PAlPXs%3D&reserved=0>&data=02%7C01%7C% >> 7Cb448363ee5984b3b3e0f08d51b0373f8%7Cfa7b1b5a7b >> > 34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636444624020033702& >> sdata=Y%2Fkytu4lJUWu5H >> > zinyiNAxCBpRGAfK3GFX9REzYNI%2F0%3D&reserved=0> >> > >> > Carlos Rovira >> > >> > Director General >> > >> > M: +34 607 22 60 05 >> > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= >> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codeos >> > >>copic.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2 >>Fcopic.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b >>5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=ZPPDqp5SNhK >>C2rzYxfzkSV7f8lDtLmaRyyaMAlvtRcw%3D&reserved=0>&data=02%7C01%7C% >> 7Cb448363ee5984b3b3e0f08d51b0373f8%7Cfa7b1b5a7b3 >> > 4438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636444624020033702&sdata=Y% >> 2Fkytu4lJUWu5Hz >> > inyiNAxCBpRGAfK3GFX9REzYNI%2F0%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > >> > Conocenos Avant2 en 1 minuto! >> > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= >> https%3A%2F%2Favant2.e >> > s%2F%23video&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb448363ee5984b3b3e0f08d51b03 >> 73f8%7Cfa7b1b5a >> > 7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636444624020033702& >> sdata=SJmmZQTVSb0tmX >> > r73WVQr%2BLVhv6%2BLRMgcQyhBgOo1KI%3D&reserved=0> >> > >> > >> > Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede >>contener >> > información privilegiada o confidencial. Si ha recibido este mensaje >>por >> > error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma >>vía >> y >> > proceda a su destrucción. >> > >> > De la vigente Ley Orgánica de Protección de Datos (15/1999), le >> > comunicamos >> > que sus datos forman parte de un fichero cuyo responsable es >>CODEOSCOPIC >> > S.A. La finalidad de dicho tratamiento es facilitar la prestación del >> > servicio o información solicitados, teniendo usted derecho de acceso, >> > rectificación, cancelación y oposición de sus datos dirigiéndose a >> > nuestras >> > oficinas c/ Paseo de la Habana 9-11, 28036, Madrid con la >>documentación >> > necesaria. >> > >> > >> >> > > >-- > ><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codeo >scopic.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b >34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=ZPowinnGs4jxxXQ4 >hULLfJLfWsGXx9zNLKnS9W7JoNY%3D&reserved=0> > >Carlos Rovira > >Director General > >M: +34 607 22 60 05 > >https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codeos >copic.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a7b3 >4438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=ZPowinnGs4jxxXQ4h >ULLfJLfWsGXx9zNLKnS9W7JoNY%3D&reserved=0 > > >Conocenos Avant2 en 1 minuto! ><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Favant2.e >s%2F%23video&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb97bd994ab24ee2f91c08d51c496496%7Cfa7b1b5a >7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636446023931803217&sdata=ZiX3l%2FtQwsOG >QN%2BibIJ5pxYpI5UboaH26BzM%2F9AtaLg%3D&reserved=0> > > >Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener >información privilegiada o confidencial. Si ha recibido este mensaje por >error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y >proceda a su destrucción. > >De la vigente Ley Orgánica de Protección de Datos (15/1999), le >comunicamos >que sus datos forman parte de un fichero cuyo responsable es CODEOSCOPIC >S.A. La finalidad de dicho tratamiento es facilitar la prestación del >servicio o información solicitados, teniendo usted derecho de acceso, >rectificación, cancelación y oposición de sus datos dirigiéndose a >nuestras >oficinas c/ Paseo de la Habana 9-11, 28036, Madrid con la documentación >necesaria.
