I also wanted to say that I would be happy to take my turn as release manager once the process has stabilized enough that it is mainly a matter of shepherding the new release through a reliable series of steps. I spent several years as RM for various companies, and often understood very little of the actual code I was helping the system compile and package. I may be the use case that shows whether the release process has become "good enough".
Andrew On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 9:00 AM Andrew Wetmore <[email protected]> wrote: > Oh, of course! > > Chris, I am trying to move up to the website stuff that Royale users would > want quick access to, and keep on the wiki stuff that the development team > needs, or that is "tl:dr" details. I would be happy to work with you to get > your material on the github wiki and to curate it so it appears where we > all can find it. This is what I do for the Infrastructure team at ASF, who > had a backlog of 20 years of material with nobody curating it. > > As you probably know, the patterns for the two wikis are very similar. > > Andrew > > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 8:55 AM Piotr Zarzycki <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Chris, >> >> We are not using confluence at all. We are using Wiki [1], but you can >> write document in whatever place you wanted to if you are not comfortable >> with wiki. >> >> Andrew, >> >> Will you be willing to translate that document into our Wiki manner ? >> >> [1] https://github.com/apache/royale-asjs/wiki >> >> Thanks, >> Piotr >> >> czw., 28 maj 2020 o 13:43 Christofer Dutz <[email protected]> >> napisał(a): >> >> > Hi Piotr, >> > >> > I think the Royale project could grant my user write permissions to >> > confluence. >> > Then I could write such a document there. >> > >> > But I could also do a google doc outside, if this is more convenient. >> > >> > Chris >> > >> > >> > >> > Am 28.05.20, 13:39 schrieb "Piotr Zarzycki" <[email protected] >> >: >> > >> > Chris, >> > >> > I think I would like to be after Harbs and eventually Greg. Yes you >> can >> > send me a link, write a document with absolutely EVERY step which I >> > have to >> > do in order to get release done. Even if you think that I know some >> > steps >> > like signing - you can in such places point into some existing >> > document. >> > >> > I would like to be able to comment on every step to confront if I >> > really >> > for example had to copy/paste some command or just opposite I had >> to do >> > much more than only copy/paste. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Piotr >> > >> > czw., 28 maj 2020 o 13:27 Christofer Dutz < >> [email protected]> >> > napisał(a): >> > >> > > Hi Piotr, >> > > >> > > we could change the configuration to use the jgit plugin on the CI >> > machine >> > > and to use the default on local machines. >> > > In that case you could do it on any machine you want (also >> windows) >> > > >> > > Who does releases in which order using which tooling ... I don't >> > really >> > > care ... >> > > >> > > I'm just happy that there's a line building up of people wanting >> to >> > do so >> > > and I get to use fresh releases :-) >> > > >> > > If there is anything I can help with ... just ping me and I'll be >> > happy to >> > > help. >> > > >> > > Chris >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Am 28.05.20, 13:18 schrieb "Piotr Zarzycki" < >> > [email protected]>: >> > > >> > > Hi Harbs, >> > > >> > > I would like to be a release manager as well, but using Chri's >> > > implementation which as far as I know is in place. I would >> like >> > to use >> > > his >> > > mentioned 3 steps and see how much things I will have to do on >> > my own >> > > to >> > > make release happen. I know that I will have to do that on >> Mac, >> > cause >> > > there >> > > some Maven/Git/Jenkins related plugin which allows use >> Jenkins, >> > but it >> > > prevents me from pushing artifacts from windows. >> > > >> > > I have some thoughts about above proposition, but I will wait >> > till we >> > > all >> > > pass trough the release process. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Piotr >> > > >> > > czw., 28 maj 2020 o 11:06 Christofer Dutz < >> > [email protected]> >> > > napisał(a): >> > > >> > > > Hi Harbs, >> > > > >> > > > makes sense. >> > > > >> > > > Chris >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Am 28.05.20, 10:48 schrieb "Harbs" <[email protected]>: >> > > > >> > > > Hi Chris, >> > > > >> > > > Thanks for you work helping with the 0.9.7 release as >> well. >> > > > >> > > > I’m definitely open to improving the structure and the >> > process. >> > > > >> > > > My biggest hesitation is that I don’t understand the >> > current >> > > release >> > > > process well enough. Until recently Alex was the only one >> who >> > really >> > > > understood it. Yishay just went through the process so he >> has >> > a good >> > > > understanding now. I plan on doing another release the week >> > > following next >> > > > (i.e. starting June 7 or so). My hope is that I will >> > understand it >> > > better >> > > > at that point. I don’t know whether Greg Dove is willing to >> do >> > a >> > > release, >> > > > but I think it would be very valuable to get his input as >> well. >> > > > >> > > > So my proposal is that we get some more of us familiar >> > with the >> > > what >> > > > and the why of the current process. I want to understand >> what >> > was >> > > done and >> > > > why it was done. I don’t feel comfortable having an opinion >> on >> > > changing >> > > > things until I can weigh the pros and cons. I’d like more of >> > us to >> > > be in >> > > > the same position so we will be in the position of building >> > > consensus on >> > > > changes. The reason I hope that Greg Dove specifically does >> a >> > > release is >> > > > because I feel he’s pretty neutral on technology and I think >> > he’ll >> > > have >> > > > good valuable input. >> > > > >> > > > So here’s my proposal: >> > > > >> > > > 1. Let’s work on doing another 2-3 releases in rapid >> > succession >> > > > without making too many changes. >> > > > 2. Let’s try and get as many of us familiar with that >> > process as >> > > > possible. >> > > > 3. Once that’s done, let’s discuss the pain points and >> > what can >> > > be >> > > > done to improve the structure and/or the process with pros >> and >> > cons. >> > > Maybe >> > > > your suggestion is the way to go? Maybe something else? >> > Similar? >> > > Don’t >> > > > know, but I’d like to get to the point where we can have an >> > > intelligent >> > > > discussion on the topic with different points of view. I >> don’t >> > think >> > > we’re >> > > > quite there yet. >> > > > 4. Carefully start implementing changes. Making big >> > changes is >> > > often >> > > > disruptive and is often the cause of conflict. This is >> nothing >> > > specific to >> > > > us, and there’s even accepted advice on the topic. I suggest >> > we all >> > > read >> > > > and follow James Duncan Davidson's “rules for >> > revolutionaries”[1]. >> > > > >> > > > I appreciate having your proposed changes to ponder the >> > next >> > > couple of >> > > > weeks. >> > > > >> > > > In the meantime, please by all means, dive into Royale >> and >> > create >> > > > issues, pull requests, let us know difficulties, etc. I’ll >> > make my >> > > best >> > > > effort to be as responsive as possible and help where I >> can. If >> > > you’re >> > > > feeling frustration, please reach out to me on Slack. >> > > > >> > > > Does this make sense? >> > > > Harbs >> > > > >> > > > [1]http://s.apache.org/rules_for_revolutionaries < >> > > > http://s.apache.org/rules_for_revolutionaries> >> > > > >> > > > > On May 28, 2020, at 10:56 AM, Christofer Dutz < >> > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Hi all, >> > > > > >> > > > > congrats to the successful release of 0.9.7 … it >> greatly >> > > simplified >> > > > the last PLC4X release to have the artifacts out there in >> the >> > wild. >> > > > > >> > > > > I would really like to see Royale as the tool in my >> > toolbox for >> > > > building industrial UI applications as I sort of am not that >> > happy >> > > with the >> > > > other existing alternatives. >> > > > > >> > > > > In order to do this I know that I have some areas of >> > expertise >> > > I can >> > > > offer to the project … Writing ActionScript and MXML code is >> > > definitely not >> > > > where I can help best. >> > > > > >> > > > > However I’m really good at Java, Maven and Apache >> > > Infrastructure. I >> > > > know that development is most active in the ASJS repo but I >> > would be >> > > happy >> > > > to help on the other sides ... perhaps even help the >> automated >> > > testing in >> > > > the ASJS repo. >> > > > > >> > > > > I would have one proposal on how to really simplify >> > things, >> > > but I >> > > > would be hesitant to start working on this before we have >> > consensus >> > > on this >> > > > here. >> > > > > It would probably involve multiple weeks of full time >> > work in >> > > total >> > > > to do it for me, but I would be happy to do it, if the >> project >> > would >> > > accept >> > > > it in the end and you folks would be willing to help with >> the >> > parts >> > > I’m not >> > > > too deep into (Ant-, NPM build adjustments). So that’s why >> I’m >> > > bringing >> > > > this up here first. I know it might question some unwritten >> > project >> > > rules, >> > > > but I would kindly ask you to not just block the discussion >> and >> > > perhaps >> > > > help re-evaluating why they became “project rules” and if >> the >> > > assumptions >> > > > were correct or still apply. >> > > > > >> > > > > The benefit would be: >> > > > > >> > > > > * Less problems in getting set-up (just clone one >> > repo) >> > > > > * Simpler release (Only need to release one >> > repository … no >> > > > updating of version information in-between) >> > > > > * Less things that can go wrong (I remember when >> > compiler >> > > was >> > > > already in 0.9.8-SNAPSHOT but the rest wasn’t yet … there >> were >> > issues >> > > > discussed on the list) >> > > > > * I would use the opportunity to clean up some >> things >> > in the >> > > > maven build, because despite the probably common assumption >> … >> > I’m not >> > > > really happy with the usability of the maven build from a >> > user’s >> > > > perspective … I think there’s great room for improvement >> > > > > >> > > > > In general I would propose to merge all 3 repositories >> > into >> > > one. >> > > > Right now the Maven build would probably work with different >> > > releases of >> > > > the compiler or typedefs but from what I can see … the Ant >> > release >> > > would >> > > > probably not work without modification. So the whole idea of >> > > releasing >> > > > separately seems to be more a theoretical one. I think in >> the >> > > history of >> > > > FlexJS and Royale it hasn’t been done once (please correct >> me >> > if I’m >> > > > wrong). If there are external entities only interested in >> > consuming >> > > parts >> > > > of the project, we could build source distribution for these >> > that >> > > only >> > > > contain the parts they are interest in. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > * I propose to move the artifacts needed for the >> > build but >> > > not >> > > > being part of the build (build-tools, jburg-types) into a >> > separate >> > > > repository where they can be released independently and >> don’t >> > cause >> > > > confusion like they are doing right now. >> > > > > * Then I would like to create a new repository >> (Let’s >> > call >> > > it >> > > > “royale”) which contains 3 directories: compiler, typedefs >> and >> > asjs >> > > (or >> > > > even with the current “royale-“ prefix, I don’t really >> > care/mind). >> > > > > * Now comes the biggest block … I would need to >> > completely >> > > > rewrite the royale-maven-plugin … the core of it would be >> also >> > moved >> > > to the >> > > > new build-tools repository. This plugin would sort of be an >> > empty >> > > skeleton >> > > > to load compiler plugins. This is needed as Maven can’t >> build a >> > > project >> > > > where a plugin used in the project is also part of the build >> > itself. >> > > So we >> > > > couldn’t build all-in-one go without this change. >> > > > > * Next step would be to add a new royale-parent pom >> > in the >> > > new >> > > > root of the project, the 3 old parents would be updated to >> use >> > the >> > > new >> > > > parent and a lot of duplicated configuration could be moved >> > there, >> > > hereby >> > > > greatly simplifying the 3 old root poms. >> > > > > >> > > > > A migration plan, could be to : >> > > > > >> > > > > * create a feature-branch in all 3 repositories >> > > > > * create two new repos “royale” and >> > “royale-build-tools” (or >> > > > whatever you want to name them) >> > > > > * Start with using git submodules to import the 3 >> > branches >> > > into >> > > > the new (I know submodules really suck, but they would only >> be >> > > needed until >> > > > everything is finished) >> > > > > * I would move/copy the build tools to the new repo >> > and >> > > start >> > > > working on the new maven plugin >> > > > > * Then I would need to update the old compiler >> repo to >> > > produce >> > > > something I can use as royale-maven-plugin plugins >> > > > > * After that’s done I would update the typedefs to >> > use the >> > > new >> > > > plugin >> > > > > * After that’s done I would update the asjs repo to >> > use the >> > > new >> > > > plugin >> > > > > * Then I would add the new royale-parent pom >> > > > > * After that’s done I would simplify and >> deduplicate >> > the >> > > > configuration >> > > > > * Now I would definitely need some help with >> > adjusting the >> > > Ant >> > > > and possibly NPM build to these changes (Most of them >> should be >> > > > profile-names and maybe directory names or paths) >> > > > > * The last thing that would be required to be done >> now >> > > would be >> > > > to remove the submodules in the “royale” repository and to >> > import >> > > the real >> > > > repos >> > > > > * After this the 3 old repos could be archived >> > > > > >> > > > > I am really looking forward to some open discussion on >> > this. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Chris >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > Piotr Zarzycki >> > > >> > > Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki >> > > <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>* >> > > >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Piotr Zarzycki >> > >> > Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki >> > <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>* >> > >> > >> >> -- >> >> Piotr Zarzycki >> >> Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki >> <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>* >> > > > -- > Andrew Wetmore > > http://cottage14.blogspot.com/ > > > > > -- Andrew Wetmore http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
