Alex might want to confirm, but I’m pretty sure DST issue was fixed. From: Greg Dove<mailto:greg.d...@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 1:40 AM To: Apache Royale Development<mailto:dev@royale.apache.org> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] How to continue to simplify things?
Chris, Harbs & others, Sorry I didn't reply earlier on this thread, I have been very focused on some intense work tasks, consuming extra hours in each day for some time now. Unless I misunderstood something, I think we already had consensus on top-level things like: a) we need the royale sdk (as3 language support + application framework + compiler + typedefs) to continue to be usable via ant, maven, npm and possibly other future build tools b) we need the distribution/artifacts to be validated for each of the end-user supported build tools c) we need the release process to be as simple and streamlined as possible, while still keeping quality checks in place. This is just my limited interpretation/synthesis of discussions to date, so I hope it it makes sense. There were some expressions that certain things had to be done a certain way at (c) in order to achieve (b). If my expression above (representing my understanding) is correct, then I really don't care what tech we use to achieve (c), so long as (a) and (b) are achieved. I guess the only other thing I would add is that whatever we use for (c) should be easy to understand and maintain, but perhaps that is inherent in the 'simple and streamlined' part of what I expressed. Chris, Thanks for investing your time in this, and for your proposal. If my understanding above is correct then I think your proposal covers that along with the general improvements in maven configurations and support. I'll try to find time to watch the video in the coming week. One specific comment about: ' perhaps even help the automated testing in the ASJS repo.' At the moment there is a RoyaleUnit ant task that Josh created. If RoyaleUnit could somehow be supported via maven that would be awesome. I know you have other approaches as well for automated UI testing, but RoyaleUnit permits re-use of legacy FlexUnit tests, so supporting that via maven would be a major plus, I think. Harbs, Thanks for the suggestion that I participate as RM. I only understand the current process in a very abstract sense, apart from the time I watched Chris and Carlos going through the first 7 steps. I agree that, in general, it's better to understand a process before decisions relating to improvements are considered for that process, and I know I do not really understand it well. But I don't think that needs to include me, and would prefer not to be RM in the near term. I will be happy to do this at some point, but I envisage my time being quite pre-occupied with asjs (particularly emulation) work over the next couple of months, and prefer to keep my limited neurons focused on that for now. Basically, I am happy to defer to others here. As an aside, one of the issues identified in recent weeks was the DST alignment issue which seemed to require DST alignment between RM's local machine and the CI server. Perhaps that is fixed now, I am not sure. If it is not then, based on the original description of the cause of that problem, it might preclude me being RM until it is fixed in any case, because that misalignment would hold true most of the year for me (I would consider it important to fix, but not urgent to fix because we have, I believe, no others currently from the southern hemisphere who could be RM right now anyway). Greg On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 4:02 AM Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > Hi all, > > Today I just prepared my forks of royale again and did a full release of > all 3 repos and did a video recording of that. > I did find some minor quirks which I'll whip up a PR for (no profile name > or directory changes). > > As soon as I am finished cutting the video and removed lots minutes of > jewl-theme-compilation stuff I'll publish the link to the videos here. > > Chris > > Am 28.05.20, 18:03 schrieb "Andrew Wetmore" <cottag...@gmail.com>: > > Seems like the simplest way. > > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:55 PM Christofer Dutz < > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Infra says there's nothing in-between all or nothing with github :-( > > > > So I'll probably go down the google doc route and have the text > imported > > by one of you folks. > > > > Chris > > > > > > Am 28.05.20, 17:38 schrieb "Harbs" <harbs.li...@gmail.com>: > > > > I’m going offline for two days so I’ll be quiet for a while, but > it > > might be a good idea to ask infra whether they have a solution to > this > > problem. > > > > Harbs > > > > > On May 28, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Christofer Dutz < > > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > well perhaps searching for some experiences with this ... > > > my gut-feeling would make me expect to have the wiki content > > replaced by Viagra ads ;-) > > > > > > But it would be in git, so easily undoable .... > > > > > > I did find this however: > > > > > > https://www.growingwiththeweb.com/2016/07/enabling-pull-requests-on-github-wikis.html > > > > > > It's less convenient way, but probably safer. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > Am 28.05.20, 16:25 schrieb "Harbs" <harbs.li...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > Hmm. That’s a problem I was not aware of... > > > > > > What do folks think about enabling public editing of > wikis?[1] > > > > > > Harbs > > > > > > [1] > > > https://help.github.com/en/github/building-a-strong-community/changing-access-permissions-for-wikis > > < > > > https://help.github.com/en/github/building-a-strong-community/changing-access-permissions-for-wikis > > > > > > > > >> On May 28, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Christofer Dutz < > > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> so I just had a look ... it seems as if the "fork" feature on > > github doesn't fork the wiki too ... > > >> So I could create my own pages, but not create PRs for > > documentation ... or I just didn't find the docs on how to do it. > > >> Do you have any pointers for me? > > >> > > >> Chris > > >> > > >> > > >> Am 28.05.20, 13:55 schrieb "Piotr Zarzycki" < > > piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>: > > >> > > >> Chris, > > >> > > >> We are not using confluence at all. We are using Wiki [1], > but > > you can > > >> write document in whatever place you wanted to if you are > not > > comfortable > > >> with wiki. > > >> > > >> Andrew, > > >> > > >> Will you be willing to translate that document into our Wiki > > manner ? > > >> > > >> [1] https://github.com/apache/royale-asjs/wiki > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Piotr > > >> > > >> czw., 28 maj 2020 o 13:43 Christofer Dutz < > > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > > >> napisał(a): > > >> > > >>> Hi Piotr, > > >>> > > >>> I think the Royale project could grant my user write > permissions to > > >>> confluence. > > >>> Then I could write such a document there. > > >>> > > >>> But I could also do a google doc outside, if this is more > > convenient. > > >>> > > >>> Chris > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Am 28.05.20, 13:39 schrieb "Piotr Zarzycki" < > > piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>: > > >>> > > >>> Chris, > > >>> > > >>> I think I would like to be after Harbs and eventually > Greg. Yes > > you can > > >>> send me a link, write a document with absolutely EVERY step > > which I > > >>> have to > > >>> do in order to get release done. Even if you think that I > know > > some > > >>> steps > > >>> like signing - you can in such places point into some > existing > > >>> document. > > >>> > > >>> I would like to be able to comment on every step to > confront if I > > >>> really > > >>> for example had to copy/paste some command or just > opposite I > > had to do > > >>> much more than only copy/paste. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Piotr > > >>> > > >>> czw., 28 maj 2020 o 13:27 Christofer Dutz < > > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > > >>> napisał(a): > > >>> > > >>>> Hi Piotr, > > >>>> > > >>>> we could change the configuration to use the jgit plugin on > the CI > > >>> machine > > >>>> and to use the default on local machines. > > >>>> In that case you could do it on any machine you want (also > > windows) > > >>>> > > >>>> Who does releases in which order using which tooling ... I > don't > > >>> really > > >>>> care ... > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm just happy that there's a line building up of people > wanting > > to > > >>> do so > > >>>> and I get to use fresh releases :-) > > >>>> > > >>>> If there is anything I can help with ... just ping me and > I'll be > > >>> happy to > > >>>> help. > > >>>> > > >>>> Chris > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Am 28.05.20, 13:18 schrieb "Piotr Zarzycki" < > > >>> piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>: > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi Harbs, > > >>>> > > >>>> I would like to be a release manager as well, but using > Chri's > > >>>> implementation which as far as I know is in place. I > would like > > >>> to use > > >>>> his > > >>>> mentioned 3 steps and see how much things I will have to > do on > > >>> my own > > >>>> to > > >>>> make release happen. I know that I will have to do that > on Mac, > > >>> cause > > >>>> there > > >>>> some Maven/Git/Jenkins related plugin which allows use > Jenkins, > > >>> but it > > >>>> prevents me from pushing artifacts from windows. > > >>>> > > >>>> I have some thoughts about above proposition, but I will > wait > > >>> till we > > >>>> all > > >>>> pass trough the release process. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> Piotr > > >>>> > > >>>> czw., 28 maj 2020 o 11:06 Christofer Dutz < > > >>> christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > > >>>> napisał(a): > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hi Harbs, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> makes sense. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Chris > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Am 28.05.20, 10:48 schrieb "Harbs" <harbs.li...@gmail.com > >: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hi Chris, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Thanks for you work helping with the 0.9.7 release as > well. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I’m definitely open to improving the structure and the > > >>> process. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> My biggest hesitation is that I don’t understand the > > >>> current > > >>>> release > > >>>>> process well enough. Until recently Alex was the only one > who > > >>> really > > >>>>> understood it. Yishay just went through the process so he > has > > >>> a good > > >>>>> understanding now. I plan on doing another release the week > > >>>> following next > > >>>>> (i.e. starting June 7 or so). My hope is that I will > > >>> understand it > > >>>> better > > >>>>> at that point. I don’t know whether Greg Dove is willing > to do > > >>> a > > >>>> release, > > >>>>> but I think it would be very valuable to get his input as > well. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So my proposal is that we get some more of us familiar > > >>> with the > > >>>> what > > >>>>> and the why of the current process. I want to understand > what > > >>> was > > >>>> done and > > >>>>> why it was done. I don’t feel comfortable having an > opinion on > > >>>> changing > > >>>>> things until I can weigh the pros and cons. I’d like more > of > > >>> us to > > >>>> be in > > >>>>> the same position so we will be in the position of building > > >>>> consensus on > > >>>>> changes. The reason I hope that Greg Dove specifically > does a > > >>>> release is > > >>>>> because I feel he’s pretty neutral on technology and I > think > > >>> he’ll > > >>>> have > > >>>>> good valuable input. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So here’s my proposal: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> 1. Let’s work on doing another 2-3 releases in rapid > > >>> succession > > >>>>> without making too many changes. > > >>>>> 2. Let’s try and get as many of us familiar with that > > >>> process as > > >>>>> possible. > > >>>>> 3. Once that’s done, let’s discuss the pain points and > > >>> what can > > >>>> be > > >>>>> done to improve the structure and/or the process with pros > and > > >>> cons. > > >>>> Maybe > > >>>>> your suggestion is the way to go? Maybe something else? > > >>> Similar? > > >>>> Don’t > > >>>>> know, but I’d like to get to the point where we can have an > > >>>> intelligent > > >>>>> discussion on the topic with different points of view. I > don’t > > >>> think > > >>>> we’re > > >>>>> quite there yet. > > >>>>> 4. Carefully start implementing changes. Making big > > >>> changes is > > >>>> often > > >>>>> disruptive and is often the cause of conflict. This is > nothing > > >>>> specific to > > >>>>> us, and there’s even accepted advice on the topic. I > suggest > > >>> we all > > >>>> read > > >>>>> and follow James Duncan Davidson's “rules for > > >>> revolutionaries”[1]. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I appreciate having your proposed changes to ponder the > > >>> next > > >>>> couple of > > >>>>> weeks. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> In the meantime, please by all means, dive into Royale > and > > >>> create > > >>>>> issues, pull requests, let us know difficulties, etc. I’ll > > >>> make my > > >>>> best > > >>>>> effort to be as responsive as possible and help where I > can. If > > >>>> you’re > > >>>>> feeling frustration, please reach out to me on Slack. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Does this make sense? > > >>>>> Harbs > > >>>>> > > >>>>> [1]http://s.apache.org/rules_for_revolutionaries < > > >>>>> http://s.apache.org/rules_for_revolutionaries> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On May 28, 2020, at 10:56 AM, Christofer Dutz < > > >>>>> christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi all, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> congrats to the successful release of 0.9.7 … it greatly > > >>>> simplified > > >>>>> the last PLC4X release to have the artifacts out there in > the > > >>> wild. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I would really like to see Royale as the tool in my > > >>> toolbox for > > >>>>> building industrial UI applications as I sort of am not > that > > >>> happy > > >>>> with the > > >>>>> other existing alternatives. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> In order to do this I know that I have some areas of > > >>> expertise > > >>>> I can > > >>>>> offer to the project … Writing ActionScript and MXML code > is > > >>>> definitely not > > >>>>> where I can help best. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> However I’m really good at Java, Maven and Apache > > >>>> Infrastructure. I > > >>>>> know that development is most active in the ASJS repo but I > > >>> would be > > >>>> happy > > >>>>> to help on the other sides ... perhaps even help the > automated > > >>>> testing in > > >>>>> the ASJS repo. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I would have one proposal on how to really simplify > > >>> things, > > >>>> but I > > >>>>> would be hesitant to start working on this before we have > > >>> consensus > > >>>> on this > > >>>>> here. > > >>>>>> It would probably involve multiple weeks of full time > > >>> work in > > >>>> total > > >>>>> to do it for me, but I would be happy to do it, if the > project > > >>> would > > >>>> accept > > >>>>> it in the end and you folks would be willing to help with > the > > >>> parts > > >>>> I’m not > > >>>>> too deep into (Ant-, NPM build adjustments). So that’s why > I’m > > >>>> bringing > > >>>>> this up here first. I know it might question some unwritten > > >>> project > > >>>> rules, > > >>>>> but I would kindly ask you to not just block the > discussion and > > >>>> perhaps > > >>>>> help re-evaluating why they became “project rules” and if > the > > >>>> assumptions > > >>>>> were correct or still apply. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The benefit would be: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> * Less problems in getting set-up (just clone one > > >>> repo) > > >>>>>> * Simpler release (Only need to release one > > >>> repository … no > > >>>>> updating of version information in-between) > > >>>>>> * Less things that can go wrong (I remember when > > >>> compiler > > >>>> was > > >>>>> already in 0.9.8-SNAPSHOT but the rest wasn’t yet … there > were > > >>> issues > > >>>>> discussed on the list) > > >>>>>> * I would use the opportunity to clean up some things > > >>> in the > > >>>>> maven build, because despite the probably common > assumption … > > >>> I’m not > > >>>>> really happy with the usability of the maven build from a > > >>> user’s > > >>>>> perspective … I think there’s great room for improvement > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> In general I would propose to merge all 3 repositories > > >>> into > > >>>> one. > > >>>>> Right now the Maven build would probably work with > different > > >>>> releases of > > >>>>> the compiler or typedefs but from what I can see … the Ant > > >>> release > > >>>> would > > >>>>> probably not work without modification. So the whole idea > of > > >>>> releasing > > >>>>> separately seems to be more a theoretical one. I think in > the > > >>>> history of > > >>>>> FlexJS and Royale it hasn’t been done once (please correct > me > > >>> if I’m > > >>>>> wrong). If there are external entities only interested in > > >>> consuming > > >>>> parts > > >>>>> of the project, we could build source distribution for > these > > >>> that > > >>>> only > > >>>>> contain the parts they are interest in. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> * I propose to move the artifacts needed for the > > >>> build but > > >>>> not > > >>>>> being part of the build (build-tools, jburg-types) into a > > >>> separate > > >>>>> repository where they can be released independently and > don’t > > >>> cause > > >>>>> confusion like they are doing right now. > > >>>>>> * Then I would like to create a new repository (Let’s > > >>> call > > >>>> it > > >>>>> “royale”) which contains 3 directories: compiler, typedefs > and > > >>> asjs > > >>>> (or > > >>>>> even with the current “royale-“ prefix, I don’t really > > >>> care/mind). > > >>>>>> * Now comes the biggest block … I would need to > > >>> completely > > >>>>> rewrite the royale-maven-plugin … the core of it would be > also > > >>> moved > > >>>> to the > > >>>>> new build-tools repository. This plugin would sort of be an > > >>> empty > > >>>> skeleton > > >>>>> to load compiler plugins. This is needed as Maven can’t > build a > > >>>> project > > >>>>> where a plugin used in the project is also part of the > build > > >>> itself. > > >>>> So we > > >>>>> couldn’t build all-in-one go without this change. > > >>>>>> * Next step would be to add a new royale-parent pom > > >>> in the > > >>>> new > > >>>>> root of the project, the 3 old parents would be updated to > use > > >>> the > > >>>> new > > >>>>> parent and a lot of duplicated configuration could be moved > > >>> there, > > >>>> hereby > > >>>>> greatly simplifying the 3 old root poms. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> A migration plan, could be to : > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> * create a feature-branch in all 3 repositories > > >>>>>> * create two new repos “royale” and > > >>> “royale-build-tools” (or > > >>>>> whatever you want to name them) > > >>>>>> * Start with using git submodules to import the 3 > > >>> branches > > >>>> into > > >>>>> the new (I know submodules really suck, but they would > only be > > >>>> needed until > > >>>>> everything is finished) > > >>>>>> * I would move/copy the build tools to the new repo > > >>> and > > >>>> start > > >>>>> working on the new maven plugin > > >>>>>> * Then I would need to update the old compiler repo to > > >>>> produce > > >>>>> something I can use as royale-maven-plugin plugins > > >>>>>> * After that’s done I would update the typedefs to > > >>> use the > > >>>> new > > >>>>> plugin > > >>>>>> * After that’s done I would update the asjs repo to > > >>> use the > > >>>> new > > >>>>> plugin > > >>>>>> * Then I would add the new royale-parent pom > > >>>>>> * After that’s done I would simplify and deduplicate > > >>> the > > >>>>> configuration > > >>>>>> * Now I would definitely need some help with > > >>> adjusting the > > >>>> Ant > > >>>>> and possibly NPM build to these changes (Most of them > should be > > >>>>> profile-names and maybe directory names or paths) > > >>>>>> * The last thing that would be required to be done now > > >>>> would be > > >>>>> to remove the submodules in the “royale” repository and to > > >>> import > > >>>> the real > > >>>>> repos > > >>>>>> * After this the 3 old repos could be archived > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I am really looking forward to some open discussion on > > >>> this. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Chris > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> > > >>>> Piotr Zarzycki > > >>>> > > >>>> Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki > > >>>> <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>* > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> > > >>> Piotr Zarzycki > > >>> > > >>> Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki > > >>> <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>* > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> Piotr Zarzycki > > >> > > >> Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki > > >> <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>* > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Andrew Wetmore > > http://cottage14.blogspot.com/ > >
