Chris,

Yes I do understand that those "3 steps" are separated for each repository,
so overall will be more.

pon., 1 cze 2020 o 21:14 Christofer Dutz <[email protected]>
napisał(a):

> Hi Piotr,
>
> let me clarify ... the in total 3 step would work in its final
> implementation.
> Right now it's 3 for the compiler, 5 for the typedefs and 5 for the
> framework.
>
> Just to set the expectations right ... but that's a total of 13 steps and
> not a total
> of 13 partially automated and even more manual steps.
>
> Chris
>
> Am 01.06.20, 11:43 schrieb "Piotr Zarzycki" <[email protected]>:
>
>     Carlos,
>
>     I do have a good knowledge about our current release process, but what
>     Chris's proposed is a different approach - That approach I wanted to
> try,
>     cause as far as I understand him - everything is in place and anyone
> can
>     right now do 3 steps release.
>
>     Chris,
>
>     What do you mean by "cleaning up the maven plugin" ? Why do you wanted
> to
>     do this before I have tried your way of releasing SDK ?
>
>     How it influence whole process ?
>
>     What if we reject putting together repository in 1 - Does your
> cleaning up
>     change something - that you will have to revert later ?
>
>     Thanks,
>     Piotr
>
>     pon., 1 cze 2020 o 11:21 Carlos Rovira <[email protected]>
> napisał(a):
>
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > that's ok for me too. Just was to expose what I think will be the
> most
>     > optimal trip, since I thought you had a good knowledge of actual
> state of
>     > things and what will be the improvements. But if you think you need
> to
>     > follow up that's fine too.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > El lun., 1 jun. 2020 a las 10:24, Christofer Dutz (<
>     > [email protected]>) escribió:
>     >
>     > > Hi Piotr,
>     > >
>     > > Makes perfect sense to me. guess I can start with the Royale-unit
>     > surefire
>     > > support first. I can also start cleaning up the maven plugin
> without any
>     > of
>     > > the big steps. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
>     > >
>     > > So I would also suggest doing small steps, to keep all on board.
>     > >
>     > > The only reason I brought up this discussion was to describe the
> final
>     > > goal for me.
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > Chris
>     > > ________________________________
>     > > Von: Piotr Zarzycki <[email protected]>
>     > > Gesendet: Montag, 1. Juni 2020 09:43
>     > > An: Apache Royale Development <[email protected]>
>     > > Betreff: Re: [PROPOSAL] How to continue to simplify things?
>     > >
>     > > Carlos,
>     > >
>     > > Like I stated I wanted to understand what Chris did, so I will be
> the
>     > next
>     > > RM after Harbs. I'm going to use Chris's improvements and see what
>     > exactly
>     > > they means.
>     > >
>     > > I didn't check his video but I hope I have there complementary
>     > > instructions. I'm familiar with Maven - I expect that all of that
> will
>     > take
>     > > max 1 day and I will have RC1. If not we need to improve before
> any Big
>     > > steps described here.
>     > >
>     > > I do have couple of some sort of requirements towards those steps
> if they
>     > > are really going to happen - before I talk about them I'm going to
> be RM.
>     > >
>     > > I hope it makes sense to you.
>     > >
>     > > Piotr
>     > >
>     > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2020, 9:36 AM Carlos Rovira <
> [email protected]>
>     > > wrote:
>     > >
>     > > > Hi,
>     > > >
>     > > > just to add to this proposal thread expressing my opinion. I
> think this
>     > > > change will have a huge positive impact in the project:
>     > > >
>     > > > 1.- Reduce repos from 3 to just 1, so reducing all actions and
> overhead
>     > > all
>     > > > that implies.
>     > > > 2.- Builds will be much more easy since all is contained in one
> repo
>     > > > instead of gathering from three. Right now builds in one repo
> must
>     > count
>     > > > with the build produced by other(s) in the chain of execution.
>     > > > 3.- Remove duplicated config that could be just in one place
> reducing
>     > > > complexity. Right now many configs are duplicated in each repo
> due to
>     > the
>     > > > actual 3 repo layout.
>     > > > 4.- Releases will turn just to 3 commands on a terminal what
> will be a
>     > > big
>     > > > point for all RMs and the project allowing us to release much
> more
>     > easy.
>     > > > 5.- Less commands means less errors and more automation
>     > > > 6.- Times to release will cut under the current 1h 30'' (as you
> can
>     > defer
>     > > > from the sum of the times of each video posted by Chris).
>     > > > 7.- The process will continue improving towards a maven
> compliant build
>     > > and
>     > > > release process with all the benefits that following a standard
> process
>     > > > means and how all of that means to the actual Apache build and
> release
>     > > > process.
>     > > > 8.- Improving over time will be more easy too.
>     > > >
>     > > > For me this is one of the key points for reaching 1.0, since
> will mean
>     > we
>     > > > are really prepared to do monthly (or bi-monthly if we want)
> releases
>     > of
>     > > > Royale.
>     > > >
>     > > > About others as RMs. I think is needed to understand the actual
> process
>     > > and
>     > > > know what will mean to improve this way. So I think is good
> Harbs do
>     > the
>     > > > next release in the actual state to gain that knowledge. In
> exchange I
>     > > > think Piotr already knows very close since he did 0.9.6, so
> don't think
>     > > is
>     > > > needed.
>     > > >
>     > > > I think the optimal time frame to work on this could be:
>     > > >
>     > > > 1.- Harbs work this June on release. Here we could improve on
> version
>     > > > numbers [1], since we are adding lots of stuff in each release
> and the
>     > > bug
>     > > > fixing is implied. Maybe as we settle third version numbers will
> be
>     > more
>     > > > important, since will be less new stuff and maybe more fixing,
> or we
>     > > could
>     > > > do minor releases and bug fixing releases...
>     > > > 2.- Start working on this "one repo feature".
>     > > >
>     > > > Thanks
>     > > >
>     > > > Carlos
>     > > >
>     > > > [1] https://semver.org/
>     > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > El dom., 31 may. 2020 a las 13:15, Christofer Dutz (<
>     > > > [email protected]>) escribió:
>     > > >
>     > > > > Hi all,
>     > > > >
>     > > > > so thankfully Carlos watched the full 1,5 hours of my release
> video
>     > and
>     > > > > told me it was ok ... so I'll share them with you:
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BDKG-zPW3CoWLI0KQJDO5PGyEJQtKRb4
>     > > > >
>     > > > > In video 1 (27 Minutes) I am releasing the "compiler "
>     > > > > In video 2 (10 Minutes) I am releasing the "typedefs"
>     > > > > In video 3 (50 Minutes) I am releasing the "asjs/framework"
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Most additional steps are just related to the separation of
> the 3
>     > repos
>     > > > > ...
>     > > > > If we were to merge them and I would do my refactoring to the
>     > > > > royale-maven-plugin, it would just be the steps of video 1.
>     > > > >
>     > > > > I also added some background infos on what's happening in
> which step
>     > > and
>     > > > > why I'm doing things the way I am ... pehaps it makes the 1,5h
> a
>     > little
>     > > > > more educational as if I just typed in the commands ... will
> prepare
>     > a
>     > > > > text-document with all the steps ASAP.
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Chris
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > > Am 31.05.20, 09:29 schrieb "Yishay Weiss" <
> [email protected]>:
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     Alex might want to confirm, but I’m pretty sure DST issue
> was
>     > > fixed.
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     From: Greg Dove<mailto:[email protected]>
>     > > > >     Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 1:40 AM
>     > > > >     To: Apache Royale Development<mailto:[email protected]
> >
>     > > > >     Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] How to continue to simplify things?
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     Chris, Harbs & others,
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     Sorry I didn't reply earlier on this thread, I have been
> very
>     > > focused
>     > > > > on
>     > > > >     some intense work tasks, consuming extra hours in each day
> for
>     > some
>     > > > > time
>     > > > >     now.
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     Unless I misunderstood something, I think we already had
>     > consensus
>     > > on
>     > > > >     top-level things like:
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     a) we need the royale sdk (as3 language support +
> application
>     > > > > framework +
>     > > > >     compiler + typedefs) to continue to be usable via ant,
> maven, npm
>     > > and
>     > > > >     possibly other future build tools
>     > > > >     b) we need the distribution/artifacts to be validated for
> each of
>     > > the
>     > > > >     end-user supported build tools
>     > > > >     c) we need the release process to be as simple and
> streamlined as
>     > > > > possible,
>     > > > >     while still keeping quality checks in place.
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     This is just my limited interpretation/synthesis of
> discussions
>     > to
>     > > > > date, so
>     > > > >     I hope it it makes sense. There were some expressions that
>     > certain
>     > > > > things
>     > > > >     had to be done a certain way at (c) in order to achieve
> (b).
>     > > > >     If my expression above (representing my understanding) is
>     > correct,
>     > > > > then I
>     > > > >     really don't care what tech we use to achieve (c), so long
> as (a)
>     > > and
>     > > > > (b)
>     > > > >     are achieved. I guess the only other thing I would add is
> that
>     > > > > whatever we
>     > > > >     use for (c) should be easy to understand and maintain, but
>     > perhaps
>     > > > > that is
>     > > > >     inherent in the 'simple and streamlined' part of what I
>     > expressed.
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     Chris,
>     > > > >     Thanks for investing your time in this, and for your
> proposal. If
>     > > my
>     > > > >     understanding above is correct then I think your proposal
> covers
>     > > that
>     > > > > along
>     > > > >     with the general improvements in maven configurations and
>     > support.
>     > > > >     I'll try to find time to watch the video in the coming
> week.
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     One specific comment about: ' perhaps even help the
> automated
>     > > testing
>     > > > > in
>     > > > >     the ASJS repo.'
>     > > > >     At the moment there is a RoyaleUnit ant task that Josh
> created.
>     > If
>     > > > >     RoyaleUnit could somehow be supported via maven that would
> be
>     > > > awesome.
>     > > > > I
>     > > > >     know you have other approaches as well for automated UI
> testing,
>     > > but
>     > > > >     RoyaleUnit permits re-use of legacy FlexUnit tests, so
> supporting
>     > > > that
>     > > > > via
>     > > > >     maven would be a major plus, I think.
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     Harbs,
>     > > > >     Thanks for the suggestion that I participate as RM. I only
>     > > understand
>     > > > > the
>     > > > >     current process in a very abstract sense, apart from the
> time I
>     > > > watched
>     > > > >     Chris and Carlos going through the first 7 steps.
>     > > > >     I agree that, in general, it's better to understand a
> process
>     > > before
>     > > > >     decisions relating to improvements are considered for that
>     > process,
>     > > > > and I
>     > > > >     know I do not really understand it well. But I don't think
> that
>     > > needs
>     > > > > to
>     > > > >     include me, and would prefer not to be RM in the near
> term. I
>     > will
>     > > be
>     > > > > happy
>     > > > >     to do this at some point, but I envisage my time being
> quite
>     > > > > pre-occupied
>     > > > >     with asjs (particularly emulation) work over the next
> couple of
>     > > > > months, and
>     > > > >     prefer to keep my limited neurons focused on that for now.
>     > > Basically,
>     > > > > I am
>     > > > >     happy to defer to others here.
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     As an aside, one of the issues identified in recent weeks
> was the
>     > > DST
>     > > > >     alignment issue which seemed to require DST alignment
> between
>     > RM's
>     > > > > local
>     > > > >     machine and the CI server. Perhaps that is fixed now, I am
> not
>     > > sure.
>     > > > > If it
>     > > > >     is not then, based on the original description of the
> cause of
>     > that
>     > > > >     problem, it might preclude me being RM until it is fixed
> in any
>     > > case,
>     > > > >     because that misalignment would hold true most of the year
> for me
>     > > (I
>     > > > > would
>     > > > >     consider it important to fix, but not urgent to fix
> because we
>     > > have,
>     > > > I
>     > > > >     believe, no others currently from the southern hemisphere
> who
>     > could
>     > > > be
>     > > > > RM
>     > > > >     right now anyway).
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     Greg
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 4:02 AM Christofer Dutz <
>     > > > > [email protected]>
>     > > > >     wrote:
>     > > > >
>     > > > >     > Hi all,
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     > Today I just prepared my forks of royale again and did a
> full
>     > > > > release of
>     > > > >     > all 3 repos and did a video recording of that.
>     > > > >     > I did find some minor quirks which I'll whip up a PR for
> (no
>     > > > profile
>     > > > > name
>     > > > >     > or directory changes).
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     > As soon as I am finished cutting the video and removed
> lots
>     > > minutes
>     > > > > of
>     > > > >     > jewl-theme-compilation stuff I'll publish the link to the
>     > videos
>     > > > > here.
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     > Chris
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     > Am 28.05.20, 18:03 schrieb "Andrew Wetmore" <
>     > [email protected]
>     > > >:
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     >     Seems like the simplest way.
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     >     On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:55 PM Christofer Dutz <
>     > > > >     > [email protected]>
>     > > > >     >     wrote:
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     >     > Hi all,
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     > Infra says there's nothing in-between all or
> nothing with
>     > > > > github :-(
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     > So I'll probably go down the google doc route and
> have
>     > the
>     > > > text
>     > > > >     > imported
>     > > > >     >     > by one of you folks.
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     > Chris
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     > Am 28.05.20, 17:38 schrieb "Harbs" <
>     > [email protected]
>     > > >:
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     I’m going offline for two days so I’ll be
> quiet for a
>     > > > > while, but
>     > > > >     > it
>     > > > >     >     > might be a good idea to ask infra whether they
> have a
>     > > > solution
>     > > > > to
>     > > > >     > this
>     > > > >     >     > problem.
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     Harbs
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     > On May 28, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Christofer Dutz
> <
>     > > > >     >     > [email protected]> wrote:
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     > Hi all,
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     > well perhaps searching for some experiences
> with
>     > this
>     > > > ...
>     > > > >     >     >     > my gut-feeling would make me expect to have
> the
>     > wiki
>     > > > > content
>     > > > >     >     > replaced by Viagra ads ;-)
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     > But it would be in git, so easily undoable
> ....
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     > I did find this however:
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >
>     > > >
>     > >
>     >
> https://www.growingwiththeweb.com/2016/07/enabling-pull-requests-on-github-wikis.html
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     > It's less convenient way, but probably safer.
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     > Chris
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     > Am 28.05.20, 16:25 schrieb "Harbs" <
>     > > > > [email protected]>:
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     >    Hmm. That’s a problem I was not aware
> of...
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     >    What do folks think about enabling public
>     > editing
>     > > of
>     > > > >     > wikis?[1]
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     >    Harbs
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     >    [1]
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >
>     > > >
>     > >
>     >
> https://help.github.com/en/github/building-a-strong-community/changing-access-permissions-for-wikis
>     > > > >     >     > <
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >
>     > > >
>     > >
>     >
> https://help.github.com/en/github/building-a-strong-community/changing-access-permissions-for-wikis
>     > > > >     >     > >
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     >> On May 28, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Christofer
> Dutz <
>     > > > >     >     > [email protected]> wrote:
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >> Hi all,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >> so I just had a look ... it seems as if the
> "fork"
>     > > > > feature on
>     > > > >     >     > github doesn't fork the wiki too ...
>     > > > >     >     >     >> So I could create my own pages, but not
> create PRs
>     > > for
>     > > > >     >     > documentation ... or I just didn't find the docs
> on how
>     > to
>     > > do
>     > > > > it.
>     > > > >     >     >     >> Do you have any pointers for me?
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >> Chris
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >> Am 28.05.20, 13:55 schrieb "Piotr Zarzycki"
> <
>     > > > >     >     > [email protected]>:
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   Chris,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   We are not using confluence at all. We
> are using
>     > > > Wiki
>     > > > > [1],
>     > > > >     > but
>     > > > >     >     > you can
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   write document in whatever place you
> wanted to
>     > if
>     > > > you
>     > > > > are
>     > > > >     > not
>     > > > >     >     > comfortable
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   with wiki.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   Andrew,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   Will you be willing to translate that
> document
>     > > into
>     > > > > our Wiki
>     > > > >     >     > manner ?
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   [1]
> https://github.com/apache/royale-asjs/wiki
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   Thanks,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   Piotr
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   czw., 28 maj 2020 o 13:43 Christofer Dutz
> <
>     > > > >     >     > [email protected]>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   napisał(a):
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> Hi Piotr,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> I think the Royale project could grant my
> user
>     > > write
>     > > > >     > permissions to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> confluence.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> Then I could write such a document there.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> But I could also do a google doc outside,
> if this
>     > > is
>     > > > > more
>     > > > >     >     > convenient.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> Chris
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> Am 28.05.20, 13:39 schrieb "Piotr
> Zarzycki" <
>     > > > >     >     > [email protected]>:
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   Chris,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   I think I would like to be after Harbs
> and
>     > > > eventually
>     > > > >     > Greg. Yes
>     > > > >     >     > you can
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   send me a link, write a document with
>     > absolutely
>     > > > > EVERY step
>     > > > >     >     > which I
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> have to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   do in order to get release done. Even if
> you
>     > > think
>     > > > > that I
>     > > > >     > know
>     > > > >     >     > some
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> steps
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   like signing - you can in such places
> point
>     > into
>     > > > some
>     > > > >     > existing
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> document.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   I would like to be able to comment on
> every
>     > step
>     > > to
>     > > > >     > confront if I
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> really
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   for example had to copy/paste some
> command or
>     > > just
>     > > > >     > opposite I
>     > > > >     >     > had to do
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   much more than only copy/paste.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   Thanks,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   Piotr
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   czw., 28 maj 2020 o 13:27 Christofer
> Dutz <
>     > > > >     >     > [email protected]>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   napisał(a):
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> Hi Piotr,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> we could change the configuration to use
> the
>     > jgit
>     > > > > plugin on
>     > > > >     > the CI
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> machine
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> and to use the default on local machines.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> In that case you could do it on any
> machine you
>     > > want
>     > > > > (also
>     > > > >     >     > windows)
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> Who does releases in which order using
> which
>     > > tooling
>     > > > > ... I
>     > > > >     > don't
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> really
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> care ...
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> I'm just happy that there's a line
> building up
>     > of
>     > > > > people
>     > > > >     > wanting
>     > > > >     >     > to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> do so
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> and I get to use fresh releases :-)
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> If there is anything I can help with ...
> just
>     > ping
>     > > > me
>     > > > > and
>     > > > >     > I'll be
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> happy to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> help.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> Chris
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> Am 28.05.20, 13:18 schrieb "Piotr
> Zarzycki" <
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> [email protected]>:
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   Hi Harbs,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   I would like to be a release manager as
> well,
>     > > but
>     > > > > using
>     > > > >     > Chri's
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   implementation which as far as I know
> is in
>     > > > place. I
>     > > > >     > would like
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> to use
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> his
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   mentioned 3 steps and see how much
> things I
>     > will
>     > > > > have to
>     > > > >     > do on
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> my own
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   make release happen. I know that I will
> have
>     > to
>     > > do
>     > > > > that
>     > > > >     > on Mac,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> cause
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> there
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   some Maven/Git/Jenkins related plugin
> which
>     > > allows
>     > > > > use
>     > > > >     > Jenkins,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> but it
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   prevents me from pushing artifacts from
>     > windows.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   I have some thoughts about above
> proposition,
>     > > but
>     > > > I
>     > > > > will
>     > > > >     > wait
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> till we
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> all
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   pass trough the release process.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   Thanks,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   Piotr
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   czw., 28 maj 2020 o 11:06 Christofer
> Dutz <
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> [email protected]>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   napisał(a):
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> Hi Harbs,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> makes sense.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> Chris
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> Am 28.05.20, 10:48 schrieb "Harbs" <
>     > > > > [email protected]
>     > > > >     > >:
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   Hi Chris,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   Thanks for you work helping with the
> 0.9.7
>     > > > release
>     > > > > as
>     > > > >     > well.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   I’m definitely open to improving the
>     > structure
>     > > > and
>     > > > > the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> process.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   My biggest hesitation is that I don’t
>     > > understand
>     > > > > the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> current
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> release
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> process well enough. Until recently Alex
> was
>     > the
>     > > > > only one
>     > > > >     > who
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> really
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> understood it. Yishay just went through
> the
>     > > process
>     > > > > so he
>     > > > >     > has
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> a good
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> understanding now. I plan on doing
> another
>     > > release
>     > > > > the week
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> following next
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> (i.e. starting June 7 or so). My hope is
> that I
>     > > > will
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> understand it
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> better
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> at that point. I don’t know whether Greg
> Dove
>     > is
>     > > > > willing
>     > > > >     > to do
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> a
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> release,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> but I think it would be very valuable to
> get
>     > his
>     > > > > input as
>     > > > >     > well.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   So my proposal is that we get some
> more of us
>     > > > > familiar
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> with the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> what
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> and the why of the current process. I
> want to
>     > > > > understand
>     > > > >     > what
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> was
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> done and
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> why it was done. I don’t feel comfortable
>     > having
>     > > an
>     > > > >     > opinion on
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> changing
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> things until I can weigh the pros and
> cons. I’d
>     > > > like
>     > > > > more
>     > > > >     > of
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> us to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> be in
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> the same position so we will be in the
> position
>     > > of
>     > > > > building
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> consensus on
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> changes. The reason I hope that Greg Dove
>     > > > > specifically
>     > > > >     > does a
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> release is
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> because I feel he’s pretty neutral on
>     > technology
>     > > > and
>     > > > > I
>     > > > >     > think
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> he’ll
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> have
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> good valuable input.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   So here’s my proposal:
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   1. Let’s work on doing another 2-3
> releases
>     > in
>     > > > > rapid
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> succession
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> without making too many changes.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   2. Let’s try and get as many of us
> familiar
>     > > with
>     > > > > that
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> process as
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> possible.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   3. Once that’s done, let’s discuss the
> pain
>     > > > points
>     > > > > and
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> what can
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> be
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> done to improve the structure and/or the
>     > process
>     > > > > with pros
>     > > > >     > and
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> cons.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> Maybe
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> your suggestion is the way to go? Maybe
>     > something
>     > > > > else?
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> Similar?
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> Don’t
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> know, but I’d like to get to the point
> where we
>     > > can
>     > > > > have an
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> intelligent
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> discussion on the topic with different
> points
>     > of
>     > > > > view. I
>     > > > >     > don’t
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> think
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> we’re
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> quite there yet.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   4. Carefully start implementing
> changes.
>     > Making
>     > > > big
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> changes is
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> often
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> disruptive and is often the cause of
> conflict.
>     > > This
>     > > > > is
>     > > > >     > nothing
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> specific to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> us, and there’s even accepted advice on
> the
>     > > topic.
>     > > > I
>     > > > >     > suggest
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> we all
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> read
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> and follow James Duncan Davidson's
> “rules for
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> revolutionaries”[1].
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   I appreciate having your proposed
> changes to
>     > > > > ponder the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> next
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> couple of
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> weeks.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   In the meantime, please by all means,
> dive
>     > into
>     > > > > Royale
>     > > > >     > and
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> create
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> issues, pull requests, let us know
>     > difficulties,
>     > > > > etc. I’ll
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> make my
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> best
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> effort to be as responsive as possible
> and help
>     > > > > where I
>     > > > >     > can. If
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> you’re
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> feeling frustration, please reach out to
> me on
>     > > > Slack.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   Does this make sense?
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   Harbs
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>   [1]
>     > > http://s.apache.org/rules_for_revolutionaries
>     > > > <
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
> http://s.apache.org/rules_for_revolutionaries>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> On May 28, 2020, at 10:56 AM,
> Christofer Dutz
>     > <
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> Hi all,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> congrats to the successful release of
> 0.9.7 …
>     > it
>     > > > > greatly
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> simplified
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> the last PLC4X release to have the
> artifacts
>     > out
>     > > > > there in
>     > > > >     > the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> wild.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> I would really like to see Royale as
> the tool
>     > in
>     > > > my
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> toolbox for
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> building industrial UI applications as I
> sort
>     > of
>     > > am
>     > > > > not
>     > > > >     > that
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> happy
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> with the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> other existing alternatives.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> In order to do this I know that I have
> some
>     > > areas
>     > > > of
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> expertise
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> I can
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> offer to the project … Writing
> ActionScript and
>     > > > MXML
>     > > > > code
>     > > > >     > is
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> definitely not
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> where I can help best.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> However I’m really good at Java, Maven
> and
>     > > Apache
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> Infrastructure. I
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> know that development is most active in
> the
>     > ASJS
>     > > > > repo but I
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> would be
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> happy
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> to help on the other sides ... perhaps
> even
>     > help
>     > > > the
>     > > > >     > automated
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> testing in
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> the ASJS repo.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> I would have one proposal on how to
> really
>     > > > simplify
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> things,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> but I
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> would be hesitant to start working on
> this
>     > before
>     > > > we
>     > > > > have
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> consensus
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> on this
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> here.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> It would probably involve multiple
> weeks of
>     > full
>     > > > > time
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> work in
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> total
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> to do it for me, but I would be happy to
> do it,
>     > > if
>     > > > > the
>     > > > >     > project
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> would
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> accept
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> it in the end and you folks would be
> willing to
>     > > > help
>     > > > > with
>     > > > >     > the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> parts
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> I’m not
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> too deep into (Ant-, NPM build
> adjustments). So
>     > > > > that’s why
>     > > > >     > I’m
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> bringing
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> this up here first. I know it might
> question
>     > some
>     > > > > unwritten
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> project
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> rules,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> but I would kindly ask you to not just
> block
>     > the
>     > > > >     > discussion and
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> perhaps
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> help re-evaluating why they became
> “project
>     > > rules”
>     > > > > and if
>     > > > >     > the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> assumptions
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> were correct or still apply.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> The benefit would be:
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Less problems in getting set-up
> (just
>     > clone
>     > > > one
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> repo)
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Simpler release (Only need to
> release one
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> repository … no
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> updating of version information
> in-between)
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Less things that can go wrong (I
> remember
>     > > when
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> compiler
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> was
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> already in 0.9.8-SNAPSHOT but the rest
> wasn’t
>     > > yet …
>     > > > > there
>     > > > >     > were
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> issues
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> discussed on the list)
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   I would use the opportunity to
> clean up
>     > some
>     > > > > things
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> in the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> maven build, because despite the probably
>     > common
>     > > > >     > assumption …
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> I’m not
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> really happy with the usability of the
> maven
>     > > build
>     > > > > from a
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> user’s
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> perspective … I think there’s great room
> for
>     > > > > improvement
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> In general I would propose to merge all
> 3
>     > > > > repositories
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> into
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> one.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> Right now the Maven build would probably
> work
>     > > with
>     > > > >     > different
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> releases of
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> the compiler or typedefs but from what I
> can
>     > see
>     > > …
>     > > > > the Ant
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> release
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> would
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> probably not work without modification.
> So the
>     > > > whole
>     > > > > idea
>     > > > >     > of
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> releasing
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> separately seems to be more a
> theoretical one.
>     > I
>     > > > > think in
>     > > > >     > the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> history of
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> FlexJS and Royale it hasn’t been done
> once
>     > > (please
>     > > > > correct
>     > > > >     > me
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> if I’m
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> wrong). If there are external entities
> only
>     > > > > interested in
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> consuming
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> parts
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> of the project, we could build source
>     > > distribution
>     > > > > for
>     > > > >     > these
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> that
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> only
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> contain the parts they are interest in.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   I propose to move the artifacts
> needed for
>     > > the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> build but
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> not
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> being part of the build (build-tools,
>     > > jburg-types)
>     > > > > into a
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> separate
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> repository where they can be released
>     > > independently
>     > > > > and
>     > > > >     > don’t
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> cause
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> confusion like they are doing right now.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Then I would like to create a new
>     > repository
>     > > > > (Let’s
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> call
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> it
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> “royale”) which contains 3 directories:
>     > compiler,
>     > > > > typedefs
>     > > > >     > and
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> asjs
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> (or
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> even with the current “royale-“ prefix,
> I don’t
>     > > > > really
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> care/mind).
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Now comes the biggest block … I
> would need
>     > > to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> completely
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> rewrite the royale-maven-plugin … the
> core of
>     > it
>     > > > > would be
>     > > > >     > also
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> moved
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> to the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> new build-tools repository. This plugin
> would
>     > > sort
>     > > > > of be an
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> empty
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> skeleton
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> to load compiler plugins. This is needed
> as
>     > Maven
>     > > > > can’t
>     > > > >     > build a
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> project
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> where a plugin used in the project is
> also part
>     > > of
>     > > > > the
>     > > > >     > build
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> itself.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> So we
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> couldn’t build all-in-one go without this
>     > change.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Next step would be to add a new
>     > > royale-parent
>     > > > > pom
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> in the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> new
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> root of the project, the 3 old parents
> would be
>     > > > > updated to
>     > > > >     > use
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> new
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> parent and a lot of duplicated
> configuration
>     > > could
>     > > > > be moved
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> there,
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> hereby
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> greatly simplifying the 3 old root poms.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> A migration plan, could be to :
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   create a feature-branch in all 3
>     > > repositories
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   create two new repos “royale” and
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> “royale-build-tools” (or
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> whatever you want to name them)
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Start with using git submodules to
> import
>     > > the
>     > > > 3
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> branches
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> into
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> the new (I know submodules really suck,
> but
>     > they
>     > > > > would
>     > > > >     > only be
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> needed until
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> everything is finished)
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   I would move/copy the build tools
> to the
>     > new
>     > > > > repo
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> and
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> start
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> working on the new maven plugin
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Then I would need to update the old
>     > compiler
>     > > > > repo to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> produce
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> something I can use as
> royale-maven-plugin
>     > > plugins
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   After that’s done I would update the
>     > > typedefs
>     > > > to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> use the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> new
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> plugin
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   After that’s done I would update
> the asjs
>     > > repo
>     > > > > to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> use the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> new
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> plugin
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Then I would add the new
> royale-parent pom
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   After that’s done I would simplify
> and
>     > > > > deduplicate
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> configuration
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   Now I would definitely need some
> help with
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> adjusting the
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> Ant
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> and possibly NPM build to these changes
> (Most
>     > of
>     > > > them
>     > > > >     > should be
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> profile-names and maybe directory names
> or
>     > paths)
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   The last thing that would be
> required to
>     > be
>     > > > > done now
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> would be
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> to remove the submodules in the “royale”
>     > > repository
>     > > > > and to
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> import
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>> the real
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>> repos
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> *   After this the 3 old repos could be
>     > archived
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> I am really looking forward to some open
>     > > > discussion
>     > > > > on
>     > > > >     >     >     >>> this.
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>> Chris
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   --
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   Piotr Zarzycki
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   Patreon: *
>     > https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>   <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
> >*
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   --
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   Piotr Zarzycki
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   Patreon: *
>     > https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>   <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   --
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   Piotr Zarzycki
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   Patreon: *
> https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
>     > > > >     >     >     >>   <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*
>     > > > >     >     >     >>
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >     >
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     >     --
>     > > > >     >     Andrew Wetmore
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     >     http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >     >
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > > >
>     > > >
>     > > > --
>     > > > Carlos Rovira
>     > > > http://about.me/carlosrovira
>     > > >
>     > >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Carlos Rovira
>     > http://about.me/carlosrovira
>     >
>
>
>     --
>
>     Piotr Zarzycki
>
>     Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
>     <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*
>
>

-- 

Piotr Zarzycki

Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*

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