At the ASF Community-over-Code conference today, I brought up this topic with ASF Directors and members at a session about project communication. Yes, a project could host something if a project (PMC) wants to, provided that the "dev list" remains where official project decisions are made. Also, there was advice against over-use of Slack for many reasons. I feel if we had a modern forum in place, we would not have been so tempted to setup Slack for users.
My main concern for *adding* a forum is fragmentation for users/everyone with us...@solr.apache.org. I would much prefer bidirectional integration (i.e. a bridge or gateway) so that a user can choose the UX/interaction-model they prefer. I don't want to cut the user community into silos that don't talk to each other. I looked at Discourse https://meta.discourse.org and tried to find if it's possible to bridge/gateway to existing mailing lists. I didn't see it but hopefully it exists? If not / in addition, the Solr user list can be imported into Discourse, but that's a one-time thing intended to transition in full. FWIW I support a complete transition to avoid fragmentation. BTW fragmentation is already the case via stack-overflow today. Granted I don't think there's been much traction there for Solr (yes some, but not much). I heard some projects out there completely embrace stack-overflow and perhaps don't have a user list or similar. A bold move but I get the appeal. It's so radical to my norms that I'm hesitant to suggest it for us but I can't think of a good reason I'd oppose it. Maybe some of you have opinions to share on that? ~ David Smiley Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 2:53 PM David Mackey <d...@davemackey.net> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I apologize for the delay in responding, I wanted to give some time for > others to share their thoughts and due to the mention of a dedicated > solr.apache.org URL (I wanted to verify if this was something Discourse > offered in their free plan for open source projects, unfortunately it is > not). > > I appreciate Alessandro's generous offer of hosting the forums on the > ir-relevant.net site however I'd lean towards having its forums fully > owned > by Apache/Solr. I am approaching this primarily from a visibility/marketing > perspective and I think having dedicated, official forums would be more > "impressive" to those considering Elastic <https://discuss.elastic.co/>, > OpenSearch <https://forum.opensearch.org/>, Solr, etc. > > I would love to see the forums hosted on the official Solr domain as Ishan > suggested. The Apache TVM project's discussion URL is > https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/, so Solr could potentially have one like: > https://discuss.solr.apache.org/ > > I'd recommend using Discourse <https://discourse.org/> as the forum > software (it is what both Elastic and OpenSearch appear to be using). A > free > instance <https://free.discourse.group/> is available from Discourse for > open source projects. By default this instance would be hosted at > solr.discourse.group and unfortunately the free plan does not support > custom domains (though we could do a redirect from > https://discuss.solr.apache.org/ or similar the final url would still be > solr.discourse.group). > > If Solr exceeds the 50k/views/mo. (sustained traffic, not occasional > spikes) the free plan offers we'd need to upgrade to the Standard Plan > which is available at a 50% discount for nonprofits (regular price: > $100/mo.; discounted price: $50/mo.). Alternatively we could using a VPS > host with a ~$20/mo. instance. In any case, I wouldn't anticipate us > exceeding the free plans capabilities for quite some time. > > I'd suggest having two categories to start - End Users > (businesses/individuals who utilize the application) and Development (for > more code related topics). Two additional possible categories would be > Beginners, and Third-Party Integrations / Plugins but I'd suggest adding > these later after the forums gain some traction. > > I'd love to get something out there sooner than later and am happy to get > the instance setup and configured with Discourse if folks are amenable and > that would be helpful. I'd suggest using the free plan to start to expedite > the spin-up process. > > Sincerely, > > Dave Mackey > > On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:04 AM Alessandro Benedetti < > a.benede...@sease.io> > wrote: > > > I agree Ishan, > > just wanted to mention what I can donate from my company anyway. > > Happy to allow a customized logo and colors for the Solr section and > allow > > a redirect from solr.apache.org/discussions it that's something useful. > > Cheers > > -------------------------- > > *Alessandro Benedetti* > > Director @ Sease Ltd. > > *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer* > > *Apache Solr PMC Member* > > > > e-mail: a.benede...@sease.io > > > > > > *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied > > Consulting | Training | Open Source > > > > Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/> > > LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter > > <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github > > <https://github.com/seaseltd> > > > > > > On Tue, 16 May 2023 at 15:32, Ishan Chattopadhyaya < > > ichattopadhy...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I would prefer if this discussion forum is hosted at an official > domain, > > > e.g. solr.apache.org/discussions or something like that. That's the > only > > > right way to support an official solution. > > > > > > Can ASF help us here in any way? > > > > > > On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 2:09 pm Alessandro Benedetti, < > > a.benede...@sease.io> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > We have been working for the last few months on an upcoming > Information > > > > Retrieval forum: https://ir-relevant.net > > > > > > > > This will be a fully free forum, sponsored by my company. > > > > We have an Apache Solr section: > > > > > https://ir-relevant.net/forums/forum/search-technologies/apache-solr/, > > > and > > > > I would be happy to donate it to the Apache Solr project, I can add > all > > > the > > > > committers that are interested as moderators. > > > > The forum already implements gamification, a modern UI, and easy > > archive > > > > (and SEO for Google and searchability of topics) > > > > It will be live in the next couple of weeks, we are fixing some final > > > bugs! > > > > > > > > Let me know! > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > -------------------------- > > > > *Alessandro Benedetti* > > > > Director @ Sease Ltd. > > > > *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer* > > > > *Apache Solr PMC Member* > > > > > > > > e-mail: a.benede...@sease.io > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied > > > > Consulting | Training | Open Source > > > > > > > > Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/> > > > > LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter > > > > <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github > > > > <https://github.com/seaseltd> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 22:12, Ishan Chattopadhyaya < > > > > ichattopadhy...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative > than > > > > > current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious > UX > > > for > > > > > browsing archives (PonyMail). > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <d...@davemackey.net> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might > be > > > > useful > > > > > > for managing tension in communications and increasing the > > visibility > > > / > > > > > > popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem > viable > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > > the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric > > > > > suggested > > > > > > that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)* > > > > > > I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects > > are > > > > > using > > > > > > forums: > > > > > > > > > > > > - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar > > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ > > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere > > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes > > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris > > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub > > > Discussions > > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>. > > > > > > - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse > > > > > > <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>. > > > > > > - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283 > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)* > > > > > > Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to > ASF > > > > > > projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation > > of > > > > > > discussion forums for the Solr project: > > > > > > > > > > > > - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists. > > > > > > - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers > have > > > > that > > > > > > are informational rather than decision making. > > > > > > - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they > are > > > > ready > > > > > > for a serious proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)* > > > > > > I think this would offer the Solr community a few different > > > advantages: > > > > > > > > > > > > - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it > > isn't > > > > > > entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can > > > provide > > > > > this > > > > > > visibility. > > > > > > - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for > > users > > > to > > > > > > find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked > > repeatedly > > > > in > > > > > > Slack > > > > > > chats or on the mailing lists. > > > > > > - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is > > > > indexed > > > > > > by search engines) through their discussions. > > > > > > - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea > > > > > discussions > > > > > > were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the > mailing > > > > list > > > > > > would > > > > > > be reduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > *(Recommended Implementation)* > > > > > > While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I > would > > > > > > recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such > would > > > > likely > > > > > > exclude most (non-dev) users. > > > > > > > > > > > > Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted > > > service > > > > > for > > > > > > free < > > > > > > https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/> > > > > > > to open source projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would > be > > > > > > interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Dave Mackey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
