To get the default change done... Is there another way to tell Solr that it's starting in a non solrcloud mode that would be a way to avoid wading into "standalone" and "user-managed". To get the default swap done, I need a flag I think! Unless someone has a creative idea of how to start Solr that wouldn't be in the SolrCloud mode... bin/solr start --not-solr-cloud-mode ??? bin/solr start --legagcy-mode bin/solr start --no-zookeeper bin/solr start --single-node bin/solr start --not-distributed-mode <--- I kind of don't mind this one.
Or... And I don't really love it, we could add a start script specific to our non cloud mode. That goes against our goal of less custom shell scripts however and more Java code... bin/solr start_legacy bin/solr start_user_managed bin/solr start_single_node Or even, maybe a new start script for cloud and just document the heck out of it everywhere? bin/cluster bin/cloud <-- cloud is not a great name these days and we need to get rid of it. I don't know, lots of bikeshedding here. I think I can live with bin/solr start --not-distributed-mode. On Thursday, October 3, 2024 at 11:26:29 PM EDT, David Smiley <dsmi...@apache.org> wrote: Pluggability of ZK is a separate topic and you'll find it contentious since IMO it's a complete fantasy -- a massive effort for so little payoff. So let's not bring that up in this thread. Anyway, your last paragraph is the key part, and I agree but we're not there yet. Changing the default is clearly the next step -- thanks for that. Then, maybe reduce documentation on non-SolrCloud. Maybe assume SolrCloud and speak of "requires SolrCloud" without having to even name what non-SolrCloud is (Standalone vs User-Managed). On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 5:11 AM Eric Pugh <ep...@apache.org> wrote: > I am continuing to think about this.. Thanks David for reminding us on > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-17468 about this thread. > > To uwe's point, someday we'll need to take what ZooKeeper does and make it > pluggable. For a single node Solr, it could be just a Hashmap that > supports the pluggable interface! And for a distributed system it could > be ZooKeeper. And for larger scale set ups, large parts of it might be > backed by something else. Or, we do the testing of what does embedded ZK > take, and decide it's okay. From my perspective, what scares me about > resource consumption in future versions of Solr isn't ZK, it's vectors and > models anyway ;-). > > I very much agree with the desire to have a single API surface, and that > is my long term goal. Streaming expressions? TRA? How to enable Basic > Auth and manage Security.json? They should all work the same regardless of > if you have 1 node or 10 nodes or 1000 nodes from an API and external user > perspective. With potentially different plumbing internally. > > If we succeed on that goal, then the whole "standalone" and "user managed" > and "cloud" goes away.. You just start your Solr's however you want and > cluster them (or not) however you want. It's not this big "mode" thing > anymore. > > > On 2024/02/29 13:49:47 Gus Heck wrote: > > @uwe > > > > With some rare exceptions command line startup for a production > environment > > is starting a single node per machine either way. You start a single node > > on a single machine and call it a day. Some folks start a single node on > 5 > > servers and point them at the same zookeeper. The only thing that is > > changing here is whether or not those people pass in -c or you pass in > > -standalone... (or -s :) ). > > > > The advantage of having you pass in -standalone (if that color is in > > fashion now) is that the tutorials can pass in less args, and be less > > complicated, and if SIP-14 gets finished people who want to take > advantage > > of it still don't have to pass in an arg. > > > > This change has zero impact on starting a new production anything other > > than tweaking a command line to add an arg. > > > > FWIW there are a few features not available without zk: Routed Aliases, > > Streaming expressions.... > > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 4:36 PM Uwe Schindler <u...@thetaphi.de> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My problem is more: If you want to start a single Solr server, why the > > > hell do you want a zookeeper? This is total crap and waste of resources > > > and a security leak on top (why start some software that you don't > need?). > > > > > > I would agree with the new Solr Cloud default, if there would be by > > > default a test cluster started. But if it is only a single node: > please, > > > please, please default to standalone (yes that's the correct name) > mode. > > > Maybe make that dependent on what user wants: If you want to start a > > > test cluster start it in zookeper mode, if it's only one node start as > > > standalone. > > > > > > Speaking for many users... Thanks, Uwe > > > > > > P.S.: Instead of separating so hardly between incompatible solr cloud > vs > > > solr standalone: Make both behave identical API wise (e.g, remove the > > > differences between terms "collection" and "core"), but only start that > > > Zookeeper (shit) if you want more than one node by opt-in. > > > > > > Am 28.02.2024 um 19:19 schrieb Eric Pugh: > > > > This change is definitely NOT about requiring them to use Solr > Cloud…. > > > > > > > > We’ve changed the bin/solr script to require a “start” parameter, so > > > “bin/solr start” to fire up solr, so if you are used to "bin/solr", you > > > will need to learn the “bin/solr start” command. Though, if you are > using > > > install scripts, that probably doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > For those who don’t want Solr Cloud, you just need to add a flag, so > > > “bin solr start -standalone” for example... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Feb 28, 2024, at 12:55 PM, Uwe Schindler <u...@thetaphi.de> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Please no :-) 100% of my small/medium sized customers would never > ever > > > use Solr Cloud. > > > >> > > > >> Uwe > > > >> > > > >> Am 23.02.2024 um 19:06 schrieb Eric Pugh: > > > >>> During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to > defaulting > > > to SolrCloud mode came up. > > > >>> > > > >>> The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires > up > > > an embedded zookeeper. Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5. > If > > > you have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” > would > > > connect to the external ensemble instead. > > > >>> > > > >>> If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then > > > bin/solr start —user-managed maybe? Or bin/solr start —standalone ??? > > > >>> > > > >>> Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we > have > > > both SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud > > > content is at the top instead of at the bottom. > > > >>> > > > >>> To me, this feels like a change that would go on main. > > > >>> > > > >>> Thoughts? > > > >>> > > > >>> Eric > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________ > > > >>> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | > 434.466.1467 > > > | http://www.opensourceconnections.com < > > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/>< > > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/> | My Free/Busy < > > > http://tinyurl.com/eric-cal> > > > >>> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed < > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/apache-solr-enterprise-search-server-third-edition-raw > > > > > > > > >>> This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered > to > > > be Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless > of > > > whether attachments are marked as such. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> -- > > > >> Uwe Schindler > > > >> Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen > > > >> https://www.thetaphi.de <https://www.thetaphi.de/> > > > >> eMail: u...@thetaphi.de <mailto:u...@thetaphi.de> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org <mailto: > > > dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org <mailto: > > > dev-h...@solr.apache.org> > > > > _______________________ > > > > Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | > 434.466.1467 | > > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com < > > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/> | My Free/Busy < > > > http://tinyurl.com/eric-cal> > > > > Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed < > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/apache-solr-enterprise-search-server-third-edition-raw > > > > > > > > > This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered > to be > > > Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of > > > whether attachments are marked as such. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Uwe Schindler > > > Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen > > > https://www.thetaphi.de > > > eMail: u...@thetaphi.de > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work) > > https://a.co/d/b2sZLD9 (my fantasy fiction book) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org > >
