I am continuing to think about this.. Thanks David for reminding us on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-17468 about this thread.
To uwe's point, someday we'll need to take what ZooKeeper does and make it pluggable. For a single node Solr, it could be just a Hashmap that supports the pluggable interface! And for a distributed system it could be ZooKeeper. And for larger scale set ups, large parts of it might be backed by something else. Or, we do the testing of what does embedded ZK take, and decide it's okay. From my perspective, what scares me about resource consumption in future versions of Solr isn't ZK, it's vectors and models anyway ;-). I very much agree with the desire to have a single API surface, and that is my long term goal. Streaming expressions? TRA? How to enable Basic Auth and manage Security.json? They should all work the same regardless of if you have 1 node or 10 nodes or 1000 nodes from an API and external user perspective. With potentially different plumbing internally. If we succeed on that goal, then the whole "standalone" and "user managed" and "cloud" goes away.. You just start your Solr's however you want and cluster them (or not) however you want. It's not this big "mode" thing anymore. On 2024/02/29 13:49:47 Gus Heck wrote: > @uwe > > With some rare exceptions command line startup for a production environment > is starting a single node per machine either way. You start a single node > on a single machine and call it a day. Some folks start a single node on 5 > servers and point them at the same zookeeper. The only thing that is > changing here is whether or not those people pass in -c or you pass in > -standalone... (or -s :) ). > > The advantage of having you pass in -standalone (if that color is in > fashion now) is that the tutorials can pass in less args, and be less > complicated, and if SIP-14 gets finished people who want to take advantage > of it still don't have to pass in an arg. > > This change has zero impact on starting a new production anything other > than tweaking a command line to add an arg. > > FWIW there are a few features not available without zk: Routed Aliases, > Streaming expressions.... > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 4:36 PM Uwe Schindler <u...@thetaphi.de> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > My problem is more: If you want to start a single Solr server, why the > > hell do you want a zookeeper? This is total crap and waste of resources > > and a security leak on top (why start some software that you don't need?). > > > > I would agree with the new Solr Cloud default, if there would be by > > default a test cluster started. But if it is only a single node: please, > > please, please default to standalone (yes that's the correct name) mode. > > Maybe make that dependent on what user wants: If you want to start a > > test cluster start it in zookeper mode, if it's only one node start as > > standalone. > > > > Speaking for many users... Thanks, Uwe > > > > P.S.: Instead of separating so hardly between incompatible solr cloud vs > > solr standalone: Make both behave identical API wise (e.g, remove the > > differences between terms "collection" and "core"), but only start that > > Zookeeper (shit) if you want more than one node by opt-in. > > > > Am 28.02.2024 um 19:19 schrieb Eric Pugh: > > > This change is definitely NOT about requiring them to use Solr Cloud…. > > > > > > We’ve changed the bin/solr script to require a “start” parameter, so > > “bin/solr start” to fire up solr, so if you are used to "bin/solr", you > > will need to learn the “bin/solr start” command. Though, if you are using > > install scripts, that probably doesn’t matter. > > > > > > For those who don’t want Solr Cloud, you just need to add a flag, so > > “bin solr start -standalone” for example... > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Feb 28, 2024, at 12:55 PM, Uwe Schindler <u...@thetaphi.de> wrote: > > >> > > >> Please no :-) 100% of my small/medium sized customers would never ever > > use Solr Cloud. > > >> > > >> Uwe > > >> > > >> Am 23.02.2024 um 19:06 schrieb Eric Pugh: > > >>> During today’s community discussion the topic of moving to defaulting > > to SolrCloud mode came up. > > >>> > > >>> The idea here is that when a user run’s “bin/solr start” it fires up > > an embedded zookeeper. Same behavior as “bin/solr -c” in Solr 9.5. If > > you have a Zookeeper Ensemble then “bin/solr start -z YOUR_ZK_SETUP” would > > connect to the external ensemble instead. > > >>> > > >>> If you want to continue to use the class user managed mode, then > > bin/solr start —user-managed maybe? Or bin/solr start —standalone ??? > > >>> > > >>> Other changes would be to go through the Ref Guide and where we have > > both SolrCloud and non SolrCloud content that we make sure SolrCloud > > content is at the top instead of at the bottom. > > >>> > > >>> To me, this feels like a change that would go on main. > > >>> > > >>> Thoughts? > > >>> > > >>> Eric > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________ > > >>> Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 > > | http://www.opensourceconnections.com < > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/>< > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/> | My Free/Busy < > > http://tinyurl.com/eric-cal> > > >>> Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed < > > https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/apache-solr-enterprise-search-server-third-edition-raw> > > > > >>> This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to > > be Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of > > whether attachments are marked as such. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> -- > > >> Uwe Schindler > > >> Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen > > >> https://www.thetaphi.de <https://www.thetaphi.de/> > > >> eMail: u...@thetaphi.de <mailto:u...@thetaphi.de> > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org <mailto: > > dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org <mailto: > > dev-h...@solr.apache.org> > > > _______________________ > > > Eric Pugh | Founder & CEO | OpenSource Connections, LLC | 434.466.1467 | > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com < > > http://www.opensourceconnections.com/> | My Free/Busy < > > http://tinyurl.com/eric-cal> > > > Co-Author: Apache Solr Enterprise Search Server, 3rd Ed < > > https://www.packtpub.com/big-data-and-business-intelligence/apache-solr-enterprise-search-server-third-edition-raw> > > > > > This e-mail and all contents, including attachments, is considered to be > > Company Confidential unless explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of > > whether attachments are marked as such. > > > > > > > > -- > > Uwe Schindler > > Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen > > https://www.thetaphi.de > > eMail: u...@thetaphi.de > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org > > > > > > -- > http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work) > https://a.co/d/b2sZLD9 (my fantasy fiction book) > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org
