Thanks all for the support! Great to see we drive the discussion for
Structured Streaming and have sufficient support.

We would like to move forward with the vote thread. Please also participate
in the vote. Thanks again!

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 10:04 AM Wenchen Fan <> wrote:

> +1 to improve the widely used micro-batch mode first.
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 8:49 AM Hyukjin Kwon <> wrote:
>> +1
>> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 08:10, Shixiong Zhu <> wrote:
>>> +1
>>> This is exciting. I agree with Jerry that this SPIP and continuous
>>> processing are orthogonal. This SPIP itself would be a great improvement
>>> and impact most Structured Streaming users.
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Shixiong
>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 6:57 AM Mridul Muralidharan <>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Thanks for all the clarifications and details Jerry, Jungtaek :-)
>>>> This looks like an exciting improvement to Structured Streaming -
>>>> looking forward to it becoming part of Apache Spark !
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mridul
>>>> On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 8:40 PM Jerry Peng <>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I will add my two cents.  Improving the Microbatch execution engine
>>>>> does not prevent us from working/improving on the continuous execution
>>>>> engine in the future.  These are orthogonal issues.  This new mode I am
>>>>> proposing in the microbatch execution engine intends to lower latency of
>>>>> this execution engine that most people use today.  We can view it as an
>>>>> incremental improvement on the existing engine. I see the continuous
>>>>> execution engine as a partially completed re-write of spark streaming and
>>>>> may serve as the "future" engine powering Spark Streaming.   Improving the
>>>>> "current" engine does not mean we cannot work on a "future" engine.  These
>>>>> two are not mutually exclusive. I would like to focus the discussion on 
>>>>> the
>>>>> merits of this feature in regards to the current micro-batch execution
>>>>> engine and not a discussion on the future of continuous execution engine.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Jerry
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 3:17 AM Jungtaek Lim <
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Mridul,
>>>>>> I'd like to make clear to avoid any misunderstanding - the decision
>>>>>> was not led by me. (I'm just a one of engineers in the team. Not even 
>>>>>> TL.)
>>>>>> As you see the direction, there was an internal consensus to not revisit
>>>>>> the continuous mode. There are various reasons, which I think we know
>>>>>> already. You seem to remember I have raised concerns about continuous 
>>>>>> mode,
>>>>>> but have you indicated that it was even over 2 years ago? I still see no
>>>>>> traction around the project. The main reason I abandoned the discussion 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> due to promising effort on integrating push based shuffle into continuous
>>>>>> mode to achieve shuffle, but no effort has been made so far.
>>>>>> The goal of this SPIP is to have an alternative approach dealing with
>>>>>> same workload, given that we no longer have confidence of success of
>>>>>> continuous mode. But I also want to make clear that deprecating and
>>>>>> eventually retiring continuous mode is not a goal of this project. If 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> happens eventually, that would be a side-effect. Someone may have 
>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>> that we have two different projects aiming for similar thing, but I'd
>>>>>> rather see both projects having competition. If anyone willing to improve
>>>>>> continuous mode can start making the effort right now. This SPIP does not
>>>>>> block it.
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:29 PM Mridul Muralidharan <>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Jungtaek,
>>>>>>>   Given the goal of the SPIP is reducing latency for stateless apps,
>>>>>>> and should reasonably fit continuous mode design goals, it feels odd to 
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> support it fin the proposal.
>>>>>>> I know you have raised concerns about continuous mode in past as
>>>>>>> well in dev@ list, and we are further ignoring it in this proposal
>>>>>>> (and possibly other enhancements in past few releases).
>>>>>>> Do you want to revisit the discussion to support it and propose a
>>>>>>> vote on that ? And move it to deprecated ?
>>>>>>> I am much more comfortable not supporting this SPIP for CM if it was
>>>>>>> deprecated.
>>>>>>> Thoughts ?
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Mridul
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 1:16 AM Jerry Peng <
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jungtaek,
>>>>>>>> Thanks for taking up the role to shepard this SPIP!  Thank you for
>>>>>>>> also chiming in on your thoughts concerning the continuous mode!
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 5:57 PM Jungtaek Lim <
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Just FYI, I'm shepherding this SPIP project.
>>>>>>>>> I think the major meta question would be, "why don't we spend
>>>>>>>>> effort on continuous mode rather than initiating another feature 
>>>>>>>>> aiming for
>>>>>>>>> the same workload?". Jerry already updated the doc to answer the 
>>>>>>>>> question,
>>>>>>>>> but I can also share my thoughts about it.
>>>>>>>>> I feel like the current "continuous mode" is a niche solution.
>>>>>>>>> (It's not to blame. If you have to deal with such workload but can't
>>>>>>>>> rewrite the underlying engine from scratch, then there are really few
>>>>>>>>> options.)
>>>>>>>>> Since the implementation went with a workaround to implement which
>>>>>>>>> the architecture does not support natively e.g. distributed snapshot, 
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> gets quite tricky on maintaining and expanding the project. It also
>>>>>>>>> requires 3rd parties to implement a separate source and sink
>>>>>>>>> implementation, which I'm not sure how many 3rd parties actually 
>>>>>>>>> followed
>>>>>>>>> so far.
>>>>>>>>> Eventually, "continuous mode" becomes an area no one in the active
>>>>>>>>> community knows the details and has willingness to maintain. I 
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't say
>>>>>>>>> we are confident to remove the tag on "experimental", although the 
>>>>>>>>> feature
>>>>>>>>> has been shipped for years. It was introduced in Spark 2.3, surprising
>>>>>>>>> enough?
>>>>>>>>> We went back and thought about the approach from scratch. Jerry
>>>>>>>>> came up with the idea which leverages existing microbatch execution, 
>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>> relatively stable and no need to require 3rd parties to support 
>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>> mode. It adds complexity against microbatch execution but it's a lot 
>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>> complicated compared to the existing continuous mode. Definitely 
>>>>>>>>> quite less
>>>>>>>>> than creating a new record-to-record engine from scratch.
>>>>>>>>> That said, we want to propose and move forward with the new
>>>>>>>>> approach.
>>>>>>>>> ps. Eventually we could probably discuss retiring continuous mode
>>>>>>>>> if the new approach gets accepted and eventually considered as a 
>>>>>>>>> stable one
>>>>>>>>> after several minor releases. That's just me.
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:16 AM Jerry Peng <
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start the discussion for a SPIP, Asynchronous
>>>>>>>>>> Offset Management in Structured Streaming.  The high level summary 
>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>> SPIP is that currently in Structured Streaming we perform a couple of
>>>>>>>>>> offset management operations for progress tracking purposes 
>>>>>>>>>> synchronously
>>>>>>>>>> on the critical path which can contribute significantly to processing
>>>>>>>>>> latency.  If we were to make these operations asynchronous and less
>>>>>>>>>> frequent we can dramatically improve latency for certain types of
>>>>>>>>>> workloads.
>>>>>>>>>> I have put together a SPIP to implement such a mechanism.  Please
>>>>>>>>>> take a look!
>>>>>>>>>> SPIP Jira:
>>>>>>>>>> SPIP doc:
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Jerry

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