I’m fine with posting them to the website provided that there is something 
front-and-center identifying the document as a draft/work-in-progress, and that 
they have not yet been formally adopted by the PPMC. Maybe also add something 
indicating that while not yet formally adopted, they are a fair reflection of 
the procedures the project has followed since it entered incubation.

- Taylor

On Jun 23, 2014, at 1:12 PM, Bobby Evans <[email protected]> wrote:

> I put BYLAWS.md on a github branch to track changes to them during the vote, 
> and because github will display them cleanly.  I don’t think they should be 
> in the same repo as the source code long term, as their lifecycle is 
> completely different.  I was going to move them over to the subversion web 
> page repo once the vote passed.
> 
> My goal with this was to start with a base set of bylaws that were not 
> contentious, because that is how we had been unofficially managing the 
> project, and then discuss/vote on other more contentious changes.  I don’t 
> think the exact time frame of when we officially adopt the bylaws really 
> changes that process.
> 
> - Bobby
> 
> 
> From: "P. Taylor Goetz" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Reply-To: 
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Date: Monday, June 23, 2014 at 11:29 AM
> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Storm Bylaws
> 
> Maybe we should consider canceling this vote and re-wording it a bit.
> 
> The graduation resolution template implies that bylaws are adopted during 
> graduation:
> 
> 
>>      RESOLVED, that the initial Apache ${PROJECT} PMC be and hereby is
>>      tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>      encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>      Apache ${PROJECT} Project; and be it further
> 
> 
> Even though Bobby specifically mentioned adopting the bylaws, that’s not 
> really how I looked at this proposal. I see it more as a proposal to pull the 
> document Bobby put together into source control as a working draft so we can 
> track changes, and vote on proposed changes as we move toward graduation 
> (when we would formally adopt the final draft). If this is the approach we 
> decide to take, it would probably be best to add a prominent header 
> identifying the document as a WORKING DRAFT.
> 
> See additional comments in-line below.
> 
> - Taylor
> 
> 
> On Jun 20, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Nathan Marz 
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
> First off – it doesn't make sense to use the voting rules in the bylaws
> we're voting on as we haven't adopted the bylaws yet. I think that forming
> the initial set of bylaws should require consensus approval. We don't have
> that many PPMC members that this is going to hold us back, and I think it's
> important that we're all in complete agreement on the bylaws moving
> forward. Obviously if we agree to this set of bylaws than future changes
> can be accomplished with lazy 2/3 majority.
> 
> A few things:
> 
> - Code changes should be two +1's from committers other than the one who
> authored the patch, and no -1's. I don't think a case where only a single
> +1 is needed to get a change committed allows for sufficient review. This
> is also the rule we all agreed to in the move to Apache and also before.
> 
> Understood. Also be aware that lazy consensus can be invoked for code changes 
> by declaring so in the pull request: “I will assume lazy consensus on this 
> and commit the change in X hours if there are no -1 votes.”
> 
> I think Hadoop uses lazy consensus as the default, but I’d have to check.
> 
> Remember too that all our code is under source control and any mistaken or 
> misguided commit can easily be rolled back.
> 
> 
> - I think keeping the roles of PMC member and committer separate in the
> bylaws is fine. I can see how having a PMC that's too big could slow down a
> project, so I can see how we'll reach a point where we'll want to propose
> people as committers and not PMC members. I don't think having this
> distinction in the bylaws in any way slows down the project, as we can just
> propose people to be both committers and PMC members as we have been all
> along.
> 
> Agreed. Lets keep them separate and continue using the committer+PPMC member 
> convention when proposing new members. We can decide later, or on a 
> case-by-case basis if we want to deviate from this convention.
> 
> 
> - It's true that there are certain cases where we'd want to get changes in
> quickly (e.g. security fix). However, making mechanisms for getting things
> in quickly would also make it possible to get things in that haven't been
> sufficiently reviewed and could be detrimental to the project. An
> alternative is to not change any of the processes for making official Storm
> releases, and instead make alternative pathways to make "unofficial"
> releases based on work that hasn't been fully vetted through the normal
> process.  These releases would have the caveat that whatever is in them
> could change or be removed in a future release. This way we can get things
> out to the community quickly if need be, but make sure that nothing gets
> into a permanent release that hasn't been properly vetted. The process for
> "emergency release" could be something like lazy consensus over a 1 day
> vote, or maybe one +1 and no -1's over a 1 day vote. Those releases would
> be tagged something like 0.9.2-hotfix1, and an emergency release would be
> followed by a normal vote as to whether to do an official release with
> those changes.
> 
> 
> We’re pretty much already doing lot of this today. For example with the 
> security branch I periodically make builds available via my people.a.o 
> account for convenience. Obviously they are not official releases and do not 
> get distributed through dist.a.o. We can do this at any time.
> 
> Also remember that when we vote on releases, we’re really just voting on a 
> release *candidate*. The votes can always be cancelled and/or vetoed and a 
> new release candidate/vote issued. Only when an RC has been officially 
> approved can artifacts be released through official channels.
> 
> - I do not think we should try to make a distinction between "minor"
> changes to a release and "normal" changes that do or do not require a
> re-vote. How are we really going to come up with a definition of "minor"
> that's not ambiguous? I don't see there being any rush to getting releases
> out a couple days earlier, and I view it as far more important to ensure
> that sufficient review is done such that we don't release something bad to
> the community. Even "minor" changes can go horribly wrong, as I'm sure
> we've all experienced before. So everything should be properly vetted and
> any changes should require a re-vote. As stated in the prior point I think
> we can have separate pathways for "emergency" releases that are distinct
> from normal releases.
> 
> I mainly consider “minor” changes from a release management perspective — 
> changes that do not alter any source code (.java, .clj, .js, .py, etc.).
> 
> Real-world examples of “minor” changes:
> 
> - updating CHANGELOG.md when merging pull requests.
> - adding new committer information to the parent pom.xml.
> - updating the maven-release-plugin to 2.5 to fix an issue that prevented the 
> plugin from properly creating a release.
> - rolling back a botched release attempt (resetting version numbers in poms, 
> deleting tags, etc.)
> - fixing links in the README that pointed to the old wiki
> - updating the contributor list
> 
> All of these require git commits. None of them alter the runtime 
> characteristics of the software. If we required a 2+ day approval for these 
> things our daily/release workflow would grind to a halt.
> 
> See also my previous comment about rolling back wayward changes. If things go 
> horribly wrong, the change that caused it can be reverted.
> 
> Finally, the release DISCUSS and VOTE threads are the final protection from 
> releasing something bad to the community. As such, I would hope that all 
> committers do their best to participate in the discussions and help vet 
> everything that goes into a release.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Andy Feng 
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> On 6/20/14, 6:05 AM, "Bobby Evans" 
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
> I got almost no feedback on the bylaws. I am hoping everyone thought they
> were a good idea and not that the document was so long that few bothered
> to
> read it.   Either way I am calling a vote on the bylaws.
> 
> In accordance with the proposed bylaws the vote will run for 7 days ending
> Friday June 27th, and will require at least 3 +1s from active (P)PMC
> members with at least twice as many +1s as -1s.  Others in the community
> are encouraged to vote as well to let your opinion be known, even if your
> vote is not binding.
> 
> If the vote passes I'll update the storm web page to include the bylaws.
> I
> am +1 (binding)
> 
> You can find the markdown formatted bylaws at
> 
> 
> https://github.com/revans2/incubator-storm/blob/84d297a23c05fef5164029bd4b
> 697071aa349f9c/BYLAWS.md
> 
> I only updated the formatting from the original proposal as you can see
> here
> 
> 
> https://github.com/revans2/incubator-storm/commit/84d297a23c05fef5164029bd
> 4b697071aa349f9c#diff-77abd199a39cb67711132cd27fe41f6b
> 
> - Bobby
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Twitter: @nathanmarz
> http://nathanmarz.com

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