OK I am canceling the VOTE, I will update the document following Nathan
and Taylor¹s requests and restart the vote after I have found time to make
the changes.

- Bobby

On 6/23/14, 6:03 PM, "P. Taylor Goetz" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I just took another look and realized that "(Proposed)" is in the main
>title.
>
>I'm +1 for adding it to the website. But I would like to see some text
>explaining that it is a WIP modeling the process we've followed thus far.
>
>-Taylor
>
>> On Jun 23, 2014, at 1:12 PM, Bobby Evans <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>> 
>> I put BYLAWS.md on a github branch to track changes to them during the
>>vote, and because github will display them cleanly.  I don¹t think they
>>should be in the same repo as the source code long term, as their
>>lifecycle is completely different.  I was going to move them over to the
>>subversion web page repo once the vote passed.
>> 
>> My goal with this was to start with a base set of bylaws that were not
>>contentious, because that is how we had been unofficially managing the
>>project, and then discuss/vote on other more contentious changes.  I
>>don¹t think the exact time frame of when we officially adopt the bylaws
>>really changes that process.
>> 
>> - Bobby
>> 
>> 
>> From: "P. Taylor Goetz" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Reply-To: 
>><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Date: Monday, June 23, 2014 at 11:29 AM
>> To: 
>><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Storm Bylaws
>> 
>> Maybe we should consider canceling this vote and re-wording it a bit.
>> 
>> The graduation resolution template implies that bylaws are adopted
>>during graduation:
>> 
>> 
>>>      RESOLVED, that the initial Apache ${PROJECT} PMC be and hereby is
>>>      tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>      encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>      Apache ${PROJECT} Project; and be it further
>> 
>> 
>> Even though Bobby specifically mentioned adopting the bylaws, that¹s
>>not really how I looked at this proposal. I see it more as a proposal to
>>pull the document Bobby put together into source control as a working
>>draft so we can track changes, and vote on proposed changes as we move
>>toward graduation (when we would formally adopt the final draft). If
>>this is the approach we decide to take, it would probably be best to add
>>a prominent header identifying the document as a WORKING DRAFT.
>> 
>> See additional comments in-line below.
>> 
>> - Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 20, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Nathan Marz
>><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> First off ­ it doesn't make sense to use the voting rules in the bylaws
>> we're voting on as we haven't adopted the bylaws yet. I think that
>>forming
>> the initial set of bylaws should require consensus approval. We don't
>>have
>> that many PPMC members that this is going to hold us back, and I think
>>it's
>> important that we're all in complete agreement on the bylaws moving
>> forward. Obviously if we agree to this set of bylaws than future changes
>> can be accomplished with lazy 2/3 majority.
>> 
>> A few things:
>> 
>> - Code changes should be two +1's from committers other than the one who
>> authored the patch, and no -1's. I don't think a case where only a
>>single
>> +1 is needed to get a change committed allows for sufficient review.
>>This
>> is also the rule we all agreed to in the move to Apache and also before.
>> 
>> Understood. Also be aware that lazy consensus can be invoked for code
>>changes by declaring so in the pull request: ³I will assume lazy
>>consensus on this and commit the change in X hours if there are no -1
>>votes.²
>> 
>> I think Hadoop uses lazy consensus as the default, but I¹d have to
>>check.
>> 
>> Remember too that all our code is under source control and any mistaken
>>or misguided commit can easily be rolled back.
>> 
>> 
>> - I think keeping the roles of PMC member and committer separate in the
>> bylaws is fine. I can see how having a PMC that's too big could slow
>>down a
>> project, so I can see how we'll reach a point where we'll want to
>>propose
>> people as committers and not PMC members. I don't think having this
>> distinction in the bylaws in any way slows down the project, as we can
>>just
>> propose people to be both committers and PMC members as we have been all
>> along.
>> 
>> Agreed. Lets keep them separate and continue using the committer+PPMC
>>member convention when proposing new members. We can decide later, or on
>>a case-by-case basis if we want to deviate from this convention.
>> 
>> 
>> - It's true that there are certain cases where we'd want to get changes
>>in
>> quickly (e.g. security fix). However, making mechanisms for getting
>>things
>> in quickly would also make it possible to get things in that haven't
>>been
>> sufficiently reviewed and could be detrimental to the project. An
>> alternative is to not change any of the processes for making official
>>Storm
>> releases, and instead make alternative pathways to make "unofficial"
>> releases based on work that hasn't been fully vetted through the normal
>> process.  These releases would have the caveat that whatever is in them
>> could change or be removed in a future release. This way we can get
>>things
>> out to the community quickly if need be, but make sure that nothing gets
>> into a permanent release that hasn't been properly vetted. The process
>>for
>> "emergency release" could be something like lazy consensus over a 1 day
>> vote, or maybe one +1 and no -1's over a 1 day vote. Those releases
>>would
>> be tagged something like 0.9.2-hotfix1, and an emergency release would
>>be
>> followed by a normal vote as to whether to do an official release with
>> those changes.
>> 
>> 
>> We¹re pretty much already doing lot of this today. For example with the
>>security branch I periodically make builds available via my people.a.o
>>account for convenience. Obviously they are not official releases and do
>>not get distributed through dist.a.o. We can do this at any time.
>> 
>> Also remember that when we vote on releases, we¹re really just voting
>>on a release *candidate*. The votes can always be cancelled and/or
>>vetoed and a new release candidate/vote issued. Only when an RC has been
>>officially approved can artifacts be released through official channels.
>> 
>> - I do not think we should try to make a distinction between "minor"
>> changes to a release and "normal" changes that do or do not require a
>> re-vote. How are we really going to come up with a definition of "minor"
>> that's not ambiguous? I don't see there being any rush to getting
>>releases
>> out a couple days earlier, and I view it as far more important to ensure
>> that sufficient review is done such that we don't release something bad
>>to
>> the community. Even "minor" changes can go horribly wrong, as I'm sure
>> we've all experienced before. So everything should be properly vetted
>>and
>> any changes should require a re-vote. As stated in the prior point I
>>think
>> we can have separate pathways for "emergency" releases that are distinct
>> from normal releases.
>> 
>> I mainly consider ³minor² changes from a release management perspective
>>‹ changes that do not alter any source code (.java, .clj, .js, .py,
>>etc.).
>> 
>> Real-world examples of ³minor² changes:
>> 
>> - updating CHANGELOG.md when merging pull requests.
>> - adding new committer information to the parent pom.xml.
>> - updating the maven-release-plugin to 2.5 to fix an issue that
>>prevented the plugin from properly creating a release.
>> - rolling back a botched release attempt (resetting version numbers in
>>poms, deleting tags, etc.)
>> - fixing links in the README that pointed to the old wiki
>> - updating the contributor list
>> 
>> All of these require git commits. None of them alter the runtime
>>characteristics of the software. If we required a 2+ day approval for
>>these things our daily/release workflow would grind to a halt.
>> 
>> See also my previous comment about rolling back wayward changes. If
>>things go horribly wrong, the change that caused it can be reverted.
>> 
>> Finally, the release DISCUSS and VOTE threads are the final protection
>>from releasing something bad to the community. As such, I would hope
>>that all committers do their best to participate in the discussions and
>>help vet everything that goes into a release.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Andy Feng
>><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> On 6/20/14, 6:05 AM, "Bobby Evans"
>><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> I got almost no feedback on the bylaws. I am hoping everyone thought
>>they
>> were a good idea and not that the document was so long that few bothered
>> to
>> read it.   Either way I am calling a vote on the bylaws.
>> 
>> In accordance with the proposed bylaws the vote will run for 7 days
>>ending
>> Friday June 27th, and will require at least 3 +1s from active (P)PMC
>> members with at least twice as many +1s as -1s.  Others in the community
>> are encouraged to vote as well to let your opinion be known, even if
>>your
>> vote is not binding.
>> 
>> If the vote passes I'll update the storm web page to include the bylaws.
>> I
>> am +1 (binding)
>> 
>> You can find the markdown formatted bylaws at
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>https://github.com/revans2/incubator-storm/blob/84d297a23c05fef5164029bd4
>>b
>> 697071aa349f9c/BYLAWS.md
>> 
>> I only updated the formatting from the original proposal as you can see
>> here
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>https://github.com/revans2/incubator-storm/commit/84d297a23c05fef5164029b
>>d
>> 4b697071aa349f9c#diff-77abd199a39cb67711132cd27fe41f6b
>> 
>> - Bobby
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Twitter: @nathanmarz
>> http://nathanmarz.com
>> 

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