Jesse, I had thought of this analogy of software development to music before (and I can't be the only one, there is Open Symphony). Actually the arts are very interesting to think about. In a symphony the players have years of experience, possibly taking up their instruments as children, and with their skill they give of their best. Then there is the conductor and the composer (on occasion the same person). What is happening in art is that this is public, on display, which is the whole point, whereas in software development this is generally not so. But it is not so way out to suggest that those that develop in Tapestry are giving their interpretation, with their conductor, of the original idea just as a score is by an orchestra. That it is something that may take months to perfect, with possibly years of performance (projects) to follow, with luck -;) Why is this worth saying? Because there are always countervailing forces where, in one way or another, it is not appreciated what is entailed in such efforts. If it is thought by the client that what is wanted is a symphony, but there are only the resources for much less, then you will end up with an aria or just a prelude? Which is OK if we can see it for what it is. Another thought is this: don't be deceived by appearances, for instance the "pop song" is a great invention, but don't for a minute think that what can be a wondrous four minutes took just four minutes to produce. Sometimes, maybe, but usually there are hours of hard work by many people condensed into those four minutes. This is its artiface and there is something very comparable involved in web app development. As to joint composition, I think it does happen and one thing that can be said about it is that it is distinctly different to symphonies composed by just one composer. I believe this is instructive. Remember, though, there are also musical collaborations, for instance in song. (You might want to ponder a moment someone like Peter Maxwell Davies, did I mention him before? He lives on Orkney and on his walks traces routes around the rocks and the shore that suggest an architecture of sound to him. Actually I don't know his work, but like this idea.) Back to work. Adam
On 26/06/06, Jesse Kuhnert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I thought of a good analogy and decided I'd share it even if it is mostly rubbish. I would compare designing something as large as a web framework to what someone might go through composing a symphony or music in general. (symphony is a better analogy because of the variety of players involved imho ). Most of my personal experience has been that my own self-perceived best design work has been done while not actually sitting at the computer at all. It's more something you think about constantly in every day activities, while going to sleep, etc...By the time you sit down to actually code most of the work has already been done. It's not something that XP-ers would say is the best idea, but these kinds of designs aren't really laid out anywhere as being particularly the best way to handle a certain situation. That is why we have so many competing implementations.. If you asked someone to compose two symphonies at the exact same time I can't imagine what the results would be, but unless they have dual personalities that are able to work concurrently the resulting sound is not likely to sound as sweet as one focused around a single unified harmony. There, my waxing-poetic hot-aired posting limit has been reached today. :) On 6/26/06, Jesse Kuhnert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I would agree that it's too early to start thinking about 4->5. With > eclipse it should be a pretty quick change if/when it is needed if we want > to change the package names. > > Compatibility should be looked at at some point, but hopefully as an > after-thought so as not to clutter Howards head with competing design > patterns. > > I think it'll end up being less of a big deal than people think. Hopefully > not thinking about backwards compatibility as an overall design criteria > doesn't give people the wrong impression of what is happening with > development. It is important to address eventually, but not so early in the > game. Even if the ultimate solution is a utility that you can run on a set > of components/pages... > > On 6/26/06, Howard M. Lewis Ship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > That's an interesting idea. I can see pros and cons to it. For > > example, the code base may evolve to be Tapestry 5.1, 5.2 or even 6.0. I > > suspect there may be other problems with running Tapestry 4 and Tapestry 5 > > inside the same WAR or EAR beyond just the package name conflicts ... I'm > > not far enough along into Tapestry 5 to tell. > > > > Lets see what the other developers think. > > > > Benedict, Paul wrote: > > > > Howard, > > > > > > > > Do you have plans to rename the Tapestry 5.0 package as " > > org.apache.tapestry5" or something else? Since the new classes are > > incompatible with previous versions, I am concerned that this will force > > developers of legacy Tapestry sites to upgrade sites in one fell swoop. I'd > > prefer that I can run Tapestry 3 / 4 alongside 5 in a single application, > > migrating pages in pieces, otherwise adoption might be too high of a cost. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > arg-mailgate2.argushealth.com made the following annotations > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL This email transmission contains privileged > > and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or > > entity named above. If the reader of the email is not the intended recipient > > or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination or copying of > > this email transmission is strictly prohibited by the sender. If you have > > received this transmission in error, please delete the email and immediately > > notify the sender via the email return address or > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Thank > > you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant > > Creator, Jakarta Tapestry > > Creator, Jakarta HiveMind > > > > Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support > > and project work. http://howardlewisship.com > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > -- > Jesse Kuhnert > Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer > > Open source based consulting work centered around > dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. > -- Jesse Kuhnert Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer Open source based consulting work centered around dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind.
