I don't think it's necessary to pull out specific instances. Ultimately, the perception of mentors is that there is significant decision-making activity happening elsewhere. Perhaps the thinking that it was "significant" was partially because the activity in JIRA wasn't known/considered. I hope that in this revised light, we can reduce the emphasis on "significant" in your minds.
I agree that it might be hard to follow JIRA when not attached to the project day-in/out. David Robinson had mentioned such a thing at one point in one of the dev threads. I can see how that might affect our ability to get people easily engaged in the discussion, but it is good to be clear that decision-making in that forum is not in and of itself wrong to do and that mentors are now aware of our usage of it in this fashion. On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Daniel Gruno <[email protected]> wrote: > On 10/05/2015 01:00 PM, Stephen Mallette wrote: > > Ok, Rich is probably talking in the context you are describing Daniel - > > that brings the two positions in line in my mind -thanks. > > > > I like what you wrote here: > > > >> You can have informal discussions beforehand, yes, but the > > decision-making discussion MUST be done on the list before you start > > calling a vote. Examples of this are API-breaking changes, minor/major > > version changes, new/updated roadmaps etc. > > > > But aren't we doing that? If ALL of the work we do against for code is > > documented in JIRA, is that not sufficient place for discussion? The > > creation of a JIRA ticket is not saying, "I created this, therefore it > must > > be done and it must be done for this version and in this timeframe." > It's > > saying, "Here's an issue I believe should be worked on....feedback is > > welcome," Judging by the activity on the issues in JIRA, I'd say our > > community understands it as the latter. > > > > If all major decisions are made through a system that allows for > provenance, that is fine - I would prefer the big stuff be discussed on > the mailing list (and not inside JIRA), so other people can join in. > Discussing everything in JIRA makes it hard to follow, as a lot of > people tune out JIRA messages by default. > > However, the impression we sometimes get is that some decisions are made > via skype or other non-ASF channels, and then brought to the ML for a > vote or notification, and that part is NOT okay. > > I can find examples of this if need be, but I'm sure you can find them > yourself as well. > > With regards, > Daniel. >
