Hi Rob,
True. Then take not "marko" but ?age > 30. The FILTERs are typically pulled out
in other languages. Also, you see the same thing with aggregates (groupBy,
count, aggregate, sum). For example, in SPARQL/SQL/Cypher you do stuff like
this:
SELECT ?age WHERE { ?x knows ?y . ?x age ?age, ?y worksFor SELECT COUNT(?z )
…….. ????} ………. actually I don't even know how to do the Gremlin below in
SPARQL.
In Gremlin,
g.V().match(
as('x').out('knows').as('y'),
as('y').out('worksFor').count().is(gt(3)).
select('x').by('age')
That is -- y workedFor at least 3 places and I want the age of x.
In short, even counts and aggregations are part of of the pattern in Gremlin,
not something that is done as "post processing" step (semantically).
Anywho… don't really care care, just always seemed weird that these languages
treated the pattern different from the FILTERS/AGGREGATES.
Marko.
http://markorodriguez.com
On Nov 3, 2015, at 2:18 PM, Rob Vesse <[email protected]> wrote:
> You're overcomplicating the SPARQL example here
>
> SELECT ?x ?y WHERE { ?x knows ?y . ?x name "marko" . }
>
> No need for FILTER in this example
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On 02/11/2015 10:24, "Marko Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> Gremlin, based on my experience, is a barrier for many people who fall
>>> into
>>> category 1 (and even 2 at times).
>>
>> With TinkerPop3, I don't see that argument holding anymore. There has
>> always been this notion in the zeitgeist that Gremlin is "hard to read."
>> However, when Gremlin3 is compared to Cypher/SQL/SPARL, I don't see it
>> anymore. Look at the "side-by-side" representations dispersed throughout
>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10434372. With the
>> match()/where()/select()-clauses in Gremlin3, the "SQL"-vibe is there and
>> I don't see it as being all that complicated (of course I'm not the
>> person to judge this), moreover, its more "embedded" in the language than
>> either Cypher/SPARQL/SQL. For instance:
>>
>> SELECT ?x, ?y WHERE { ?x knows ?y . ?x name ?z . FILTER(?z == "marko" }
>> }
>> SELECT x,y FROM table WHERE x.knows.y AND x.name="marko" // shorthand
>> MATCH (x)-[:knows]->(y) WHERE x.name = "marko" RETURN x,y
>>
>> g.V.has('name','marko').as('x').out('knows').as('y').select('x','y')
>>
>> With Gremlin you don't need this "external" WHERE/FILTER notion. Its part
>> of the walk.
>>
>> Anywho…rambling…
>>
>> Marko.
>>
>> http://markorodriguez.com
>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Alaa Mahmoud <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was at GraphConnect last week and I attended a Cypher training
>>>> session
>>>> (just for the heck of it :-)) I was amazed how easy it was to pick up
>>>> in a
>>>> short amount of time. I believe Cypher's Match/Where/Return syntax is a
>>>> good starting point for those coming from an RDBMS/SQL background and
>>>> there's a lot of those.
>>>>
>>>> Implementing a Cypher driver could make it easier for those with SQL to
>>>> move or at consider graph as a option.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Alaa
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Ran Magen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Marko,
>>>>>
>>>>> Gremlin is definitely the best over-all "GQL" around. That's why I
>>>>> think
>>>>> that before we develop any language-driver, we need to ask ourselves
>>>>> if
>>>>> there's are any use-cases in which that language would be a better
>>>>> choice
>>>>> than gremlin.
>>>>>
>>>>> - SPARQL - Many people are familiar with SPARQL, so a driver would
>>>> help
>>>>> them easily get to work with a TP graph.
>>>>> - GraphQL - QBE is a great definition. The cool thing about these
>>>>> queries is that they're very "composable", which is perfect for a
>>>>> composite
>>>>> application in which you have deeply nested components, each
>>>> specifying
>>>>> its own sub-query (e.g. the standard practice in React UIs). Granted
>>>>> gremlin is much more powerful, and I'd use it in almost all
>>>>> applications,
>>>>> but when building something like a React application, GraphQL could
>>>>> come on
>>>>> top.
>>>>> - OpenCypher - While it's an over-all more "able" language than
>>>> SPARQL &
>>>>> GraphQL, I haven't seen any use-case in which it trumps gremlin.
>>>> That's
>>>>> why
>>>>> IMO there is no point in implementing it.
>>>>>
>>>>> My 2 cents.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ran
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 at 02:37 Marko Rodriguez <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Ran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are my thoughts on GraphQL now that I have learned more about
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Matt Frantz and David Robinson nailed it -- its not really
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> "graph language." Its more a QBE (query by example -- first time I
>>>> heard
>>>>>> that was from Matt).
>>>>>> - As such, do we want to support it in TinkerPop when
>>>> we
>>>>>> can do much more complex queries with the Gremlin machine?
>>>>>> 2. I think we should try and get the GraphQL guys to implement
>>>> a
>>>>>> compiler for Gremlin VM.
>>>>>> - You said it -- providers have to implement a server
>>>> to
>>>>>> execute it. Why not just implement graph.structure API and let the
>>>>> Gremlin
>>>>>> VM do the work for you.
>>>>>> - Is this a Facebook thing? Perhaps someone can find
>>>>> their
>>>>>> repository and post a ticket and see where it goes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The one thing that GraphQL has going for it (like SPARQL) is the ease
>>>> of
>>>>>> the development/maintenance of the compiler. Cypher and SQL are going
>>>> to
>>>>> be
>>>>>> insanely complex compilers to implement/maintain -- it will take
>>>>> manpower.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marko.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://markorodriguez.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Ran Magen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd be much more interested in GraphQL support.
>>>>>>> The cool thing about GraphQL is that you can easily create a unified
>>>>>> "graph
>>>>>>> query" from different components in an application, while keeping
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> separation between the components. It's a great feature for
>>>>>>> composite
>>>>>> UIs (e.g.
>>>>>>> React).
>>>>>>> As I understand it, GraphQL is mostly a standard for graph queries,
>>>> but
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> user has to implement a server to actually execute the queries. And
>>>>> what
>>>>>>> better execution engine than the Gremlin VM?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 at 15:17 Marko Rodriguez <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After reading Stephen's reply, I was like -- "huh, sure." I didn't
>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>> don't care one way or another until I just read this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://neo4j.com/blog/open-cypher-sql-for-graphs/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at the tone and lies that Neo4j is portraying.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Marko Rodriguez as "just some buddy of Emil's."
>>>>>>>> * Aurelius is some company. No, its called DataStax.
>>>>>>>> * Not once is Apache TinkerPop discussed or referenced --
>>>> "just
>>>>>>>> Marko and a band of merry 'graphistas'."?!
>>>>>>>> * DataStax is NOT involved in their efforts for OpenCypher.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem with Neo4j is they are corrupt. They use lies to
>>>>>>>> control
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> population. If we support Cypher in TinkerPop (like actively put it
>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> the repository as a distribution) we will see press releases like:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * TinkerPop drops Gremlin in favor of Cypher.
>>>>>>>> * TinkerPop realizes that Cypher is the superior language.
>>>>>>>> * TinkerPop follows Neo4j in learning how to do graph
>>>>> processing
>>>>>>>> the right way.
>>>>>>>> * etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Its going to be a bunch malarky like that that I don't want
>>>>> surrounding
>>>>>>>> our project. It would behoove us to be smart about how we interact
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> people like this as they will use every opportunity they can to
>>>>> destroy
>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> project to better their economic efforts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't do lies nor interact with people who use misinformation and
>>>>>>>> deception to get "ahead,"
>>>>>>>> Marko.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://markorodriguez.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:35 AM, Stephen Mallette <[email protected]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd be open to have cypher and sparql as first class citizens of
>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> TinkerPop. As I see it, there are two groups of graph users on the
>>>>>> fringe
>>>>>>>>> of TinkerPop and they live in the cypher world and in the RDF
>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>> Having both of these projects in TinkerPop would allow us to reach
>>>>> both
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> those communities. Doing so would help to expand usage and
>>>>> potentially
>>>>>>>>> attract more committers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Marko Rodriguez <
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I (personally) am interested in getting another language into
>>>>>>>> TinkerPop's
>>>>>>>>>> distribution. I see an imbalance in the following table:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TinkerGraph | Gremlin-Java8
>>>>>>>>>> Neo4j | Gremlin-Groovy
>>>>>>>>>> Hadoop | NOTHING
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is, we have 3 graph distributions, why not have 3 language
>>>>>>>>>> distributions. Moreover, I don't want yet another Gremlin-JVMLang
>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>>> as that doesn't showcase the virtual machine aspects of Gremlin
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>> as,
>>>>>>>>>> for example: SPARQL-Gremlin or SQL-Gremlin.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I (personally) am NOT interested in openCypher as the 3rd
>>>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>>> distribution for the following 2 reasons:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. It will be at least a year+ before it culminates into
>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>>> 2. It doesn't fold a different computing space into
>>>> TinkerPop.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To expand on #2, Hadoop is NOT typically seen as a graph system,
>>>> but
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> TinkerPop, we have Hadoop serving as a graph engine. With SPARQL,
>>>> we
>>>>>>>> pull
>>>>>>>>>> in the RDF guys (thats cool). With SQL, we pull in the world. I
>>>>> sorta
>>>>>>>>>> prefer SPARQL as its an easy language to handle (thanks in part
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>> Jena). With SQL we have Apache Calcite offering help, but SQL is
>>>>>> nasty
>>>>>>>>>> looking for graph queries and is just suuuuuch a beast of a
>>>> language
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> it would need someone dedicated to its maintenance/evolution.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anywho -- thats what I think about another language in TinkerPop.
>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>>>>> SPARQL-Gremlin if it matures and people are excited about it.
>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/dkuppitz/sparql-gremlin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Marko.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://markorodriguez.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 AM, pieter-gmail <
>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is a opencypher <
>>>> http://neo4j.com/blog/open-cypher-sql-for-graphs/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ->
>>>>>>>>>>> gremlin compiler something the tinkerpop team would consider
>>>>>>>>>> implementing?
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps, hopefully with help from neo4j themselves.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> Pieter
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
