Hi Chris, could you please add view permission for the google document? Thank you.
пн, 25 февр. 2019 г. в 20:44, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de>: > Hi all, > > I'm not suggesting to build something ... it's sort of already there: > Here an export of one of my current presentation template: > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pZ5l9X__gTM4vg2PJRbc-0GXuEf058aI > > It uses Asciidoc and I quite like that in general for all sorts of use > cases. > Markdown to me appears a lot less powerful and extensible (but that just > might be me dropping the ball on that quite some time ago) > Doc-book and Latech I remember being quite low level and I don't know > reStructuredText. > > Regarding images I started adopting PlantUML and DITAA quite some time ago > and quite recently am updating to SVGBob > https://github.com/ivanceras/svgbob > > Regarding your format ... just have a look at the content of > src/main/asciidoc/index.adoc > In the Zip file ... that's pretty much what you describe. > Most of these require some installed open-source tools to render images > correctly and I have started setting up some init scripts to install > missing things, but that still needs quite a lot of love to be in a > releasable state. > Currently it's just something I use myself and the scripts are more a > reminder to myself of how to install things. > > Please have a look. > > Chris > > > Am 25.02.19, 17:42 schrieb "Sönke Liebau" <soenke.lie...@opencore.com > .INVALID>: > > I agree with Mirko, I don't think we should head down the route of > creating a full blown publishing framework or similar. > > The issue, at least to my mind, is divided into two main things: > - text content (which I consider to include tables, lists, etc.) > - graphical content > > For text content there are quite a few good options out there, we > probably just need to conduct a hunt for the main competitors and > agree on one that meets most needs. Otoh the main ones are probably: > - asciidoc > - markdown > - doc-book > - latex > - reStructuredText > > For graphical content my personal opinion is that the possibilities > are simply endless and we should not necessarily be trying to restrict > what people may want to use either. For the "compiled" presentation in > the end I think the common denominator will always be "a picture" (no > other way to express a photo or a logo) and I personally think it is > fine. > The way of getting at this image is what I think we should be focusing > on, so the basic idea would be to have a text representation of the > image in version control and at "compile" time create the actual image > that is then part of the release. > For the "text representation" part there are a lot of possible > options, what I have used a lot in the past is for example: > - websequencediagrams [1] > - draw.io [2] > > But since there are so many services out there that offer something > similar I think this should really be something extensible so that > people can develop converters for their own formats. For the Apache > training content we should then probably have a rule that only > converters that are part of the official repo may be used for content, > which allows us to curate a little. > > So basically in version control slides might then look like this: > > == Slide One > > * Foo > * Bar > * World > > == Slide Two > >>> imageContent(websequencediagram) > User->Server: Connect > Server->User: Respond > <<< > > Whereas the content of the wsd part would be replaced by the > corresponding picture when building the actual slides. > > > Hope that made a little sense? Otherwise I am happy to elaborate > further :) > > Best regards, > Sönke > > > [1] https://www.websequencediagrams.com/ > [2] https://www.draw.io/ > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 5:17 PM Mirko Kämpf <mirko.kae...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > regarding content versioning, I suggest to search formar like > doc-book xml > > (it can be anything which allows Separation of content and Style). > > With this, we can generate PDF, PPT, Google-Presentations for final > > customization. > > > > The issue is, how to convert a result from a creativity session > incl. media > > content / sketches / fotos back into such a fundamental format. > > > > I suggest not to try to build another CMS or publishing Framework, > but > > rather Focus on the process of content creation/Update. > > > > Cheers, > > Mirko > > > > Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 23. Feb. > 2019, 16:23: > > > > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 7:31 PM Sharan Foga <sha...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2019/02/22 23:12:29, Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > During the DISCUSS and VOTE threads I tried to postpone any > discussion > > > > > about the actual content and technical bits but now would be a > great > > > time > > > > > to start. > > > > > > > > > > I know that Dmitriy was eager to get started and Christofer > also > > > > explained > > > > > his workflow briefly. Maybe you could go into more detail? > > > > > Christofer demonstrated his own tooling to us and I really > liked it. > > > This > > > > > could be a great start. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry this is going to be a bit longer and maybe a bit > "rambling". > > > > Take > > > > > it as you will. I just needed to write it down once :) > > > > > > > > > > When we've done trainings so far they usually consist of a > couple of > > > > things: > > > > > > > > > > * Slides (for us usually in Powerpoint) > > > > > * Whiteboard sessions (usually the most interesting parts > because they > > > > > usually are the result of attendee feedback/questions) > > > > > * Labs (the actual content, things that attendees need to > "solve"/do) > > > > > * Lab setup (especially for the larger distributed systems > getting a > > > > > realistic setup of the tools itself for all attendees isn't > trivia > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm missing something. > > > > > > > > Thanks Lars - this is good. Off the top of my head a couple of > things > > > came > > > > to mind - the first is testing (to see how much attendees have > learned > > > and > > > > this could be linked to certification which I think was > mentioned in one > > > of > > > > the threads) and the second was a way of collecting feedback > about the > > > > training - so perhaps a survey > > > > > > > > > > Those are good points I didn't think of. > > > > > > Tests we have never done by choice but I see that people might be > > > interested in them and surveys are something that we probably > should have > > > done ourselves a long time ago already. So: Definitely. > > > > > > > > > > > What should our scope be? > > > > > Our initial idea centered around Slides and Labs. It would be > great to > > > > also > > > > > have something that makes the Labs setup easier but in our > experience > > > > > that's pretty hard (e.g. corporate firewalls don't allow > access to X or > > > > Y) > > > > > to make generic (that shouldn't stop us from trying!) > > > > > > > > > > Slides: > > > > > I'd love to have a workflow where I can design slides > entirelly in > > > > > Asciidoc. That makes them easily versionable and composable. > Should we > > > > > allow multiple formats? If we decide on a text-only format and > someone > > > > > donates a bunch of courses in Powerpoint. Would we deny that? > > > > > > > > I think that we would want to accept contribution that is > relevant. There > > > > may be an overhead to convert the content into a more generic > format but > > > > that's doable especially if it encourages contributions. > > > > > > > > > > I assume you meant "any contribution"? > > > In general I agree but any binary format (e.g. Powerpoint - I'll > call it > > > binary even though it's really XML now but it's pretty useless for > what I'm > > > going to mention or PDF) has the problem that doing reviews is > tedious to > > > impossible. There's no good way (I know of) to create diffs for > example and > > > people on Linux are left out entirely for Powerpoint. > > > > > > I currently believe having "one true format" for all of them is a > good idea > > > (I am happy to be convinced otherwise), maybe with a kind of > "staging" area > > > of accepted contributons that have yet to be converted and are not > coverd > > > by "quality guarantees". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Labs: > > > > > Similarly for Labs we've had a good experience with (e.g.) > > > > > https://antora.org/ which also allows to create documentation > in > > > > Asciidoc > > > > > and create a website out of it. But there's lots of ideas on > how to > > > > improve > > > > > this (e.g. Notebooks in Zeppelin) and it'll also be way > different > > > > depending > > > > > on the training topic. > > > > > > > > > > Audience/Customizability/Composability > > > > > I would assume that our trainings will also be used by > non-commercial > > > > folks > > > > > or people needing to give a training in-house at their > companies. For > > > > them > > > > > a prepared "deck" with ASF branding is fine but others might > want to > > > > > incorporate these slides into their own work (see the Legal > thread) and > > > > > also compose their own out of smaller "components". > > > > > So for me a good thing would be if we produce smaller > "chapters" of > > > > things > > > > > that can then be composed however one would like and to make > our > > > product > > > > > customizabile (e.g. custom header, footer, background colors > etc.) > > > > > > > > > > Apache vs. non-Apache // Product vs. non-product > > > > > I wouldn't want to limit us to Apache products. I don't see a > reason > > > not > > > > to > > > > > also talk about 3rd party tools. Especially if they are tightly > > > > integrated > > > > > into the ecosystem (e.g. the ELK stack is often used alongside > Hadoop). > > > > > > > > +1 I like the idea and it also could make our content valuable > to others > > > > outside the ASF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't see a reason to only focus on > <https://maps.google.com/?q=%3E+I+also+don't+see+a+reason+to+only+focus+on+&entry=gmail&source=g>single > products. A training > > > > > could focus on "IoT" and cover lots of products. > > > > > > > > +1 this will also give the Apache projects visibility of others > in the > > > > same domain. I'm not really sure how cross pollinated our > projects are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a similar vein it doesn't always have to be technical > products. I've > > > > > already been approached from multiple people about "The Apache > Way" > > > > > presentations. Now whether they make more sense in ComDev is > to be > > > > decided. > > > > > Maybe Sharan can weigh in? > > > > > > > > I think Training would be a great place for managing the Apache > Way > > > > content. In ComDev we've tried to gather and collate this type > of content > > > > and have ended up with a page of different presentation slides. > Each > > > person > > > > has a different spin on it - so creating something standard as a > nice off > > > > the shelf template that anyone can use will be great. And I'm > happy to > > > > ensure we maintain a link and communicate with ComDev regularly > so > > > > potential contributors know about what we are doing here in > Training. > > > > > > > > > > Okay, that's good! > > > As you said: There's a dozen of those out there now. > > > > > > Lars > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Sharan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Lars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Sönke Liebau > Partner > Tel. +49 179 7940878 <+49%20179%207940878> > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany > > >
