Does it work now?
Even if I said "everyone with a link" slak keeps on asking me to grant
permissions :/
Chris
Am 25.02.19, 18:47 schrieb "Dmitriy Pavlov" <dpav...@apache.org>:
Hi Chris, could you please add view permission for the google document?
Thank you.
пн, 25 февр. 2019 г. в 20:44, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de>:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm not suggesting to build something ... it's sort of already there:
> Here an export of one of my current presentation template:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pZ5l9X__gTM4vg2PJRbc-0GXuEf058aI
>
> It uses Asciidoc and I quite like that in general for all sorts of use
> cases.
> Markdown to me appears a lot less powerful and extensible (but that just
> might be me dropping the ball on that quite some time ago)
> Doc-book and Latech I remember being quite low level and I don't know
> reStructuredText.
>
> Regarding images I started adopting PlantUML and DITAA quite some time ago
> and quite recently am updating to SVGBob
> https://github.com/ivanceras/svgbob
>
> Regarding your format ... just have a look at the content of
> src/main/asciidoc/index.adoc
> In the Zip file ... that's pretty much what you describe.
> Most of these require some installed open-source tools to render images
> correctly and I have started setting up some init scripts to install
> missing things, but that still needs quite a lot of love to be in a
> releasable state.
> Currently it's just something I use myself and the scripts are more a
> reminder to myself of how to install things.
>
> Please have a look.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Am 25.02.19, 17:42 schrieb "Sönke Liebau" <soenke.lie...@opencore.com
> .INVALID>:
>
> I agree with Mirko, I don't think we should head down the route of
> creating a full blown publishing framework or similar.
>
> The issue, at least to my mind, is divided into two main things:
> - text content (which I consider to include tables, lists, etc.)
> - graphical content
>
> For text content there are quite a few good options out there, we
> probably just need to conduct a hunt for the main competitors and
> agree on one that meets most needs. Otoh the main ones are probably:
> - asciidoc
> - markdown
> - doc-book
> - latex
> - reStructuredText
>
> For graphical content my personal opinion is that the possibilities
> are simply endless and we should not necessarily be trying to restrict
> what people may want to use either. For the "compiled" presentation in
> the end I think the common denominator will always be "a picture" (no
> other way to express a photo or a logo) and I personally think it is
> fine.
> The way of getting at this image is what I think we should be focusing
> on, so the basic idea would be to have a text representation of the
> image in version control and at "compile" time create the actual image
> that is then part of the release.
> For the "text representation" part there are a lot of possible
> options, what I have used a lot in the past is for example:
> - websequencediagrams [1]
> - draw.io [2]
>
> But since there are so many services out there that offer something
> similar I think this should really be something extensible so that
> people can develop converters for their own formats. For the Apache
> training content we should then probably have a rule that only
> converters that are part of the official repo may be used for content,
> which allows us to curate a little.
>
> So basically in version control slides might then look like this:
>
> == Slide One
>
> * Foo
> * Bar
> * World
>
> == Slide Two
> >>> imageContent(websequencediagram)
> User->Server: Connect
> Server->User: Respond
> <<<
>
> Whereas the content of the wsd part would be replaced by the
> corresponding picture when building the actual slides.
>
>
> Hope that made a little sense? Otherwise I am happy to elaborate
> further :)
>
> Best regards,
> Sönke
>
>
> [1] https://www.websequencediagrams.com/
> [2] https://www.draw.io/
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 5:17 PM Mirko Kämpf <mirko.kae...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > regarding content versioning, I suggest to search formar like
> doc-book xml
> > (it can be anything which allows Separation of content and Style).
> > With this, we can generate PDF, PPT, Google-Presentations for final
> > customization.
> >
> > The issue is, how to convert a result from a creativity session
> incl. media
> > content / sketches / fotos back into such a fundamental format.
> >
> > I suggest not to try to build another CMS or publishing Framework,
> but
> > rather Focus on the process of content creation/Update.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mirko
> >
> > Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 23. Feb.
> 2019, 16:23:
> >
> > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 7:31 PM Sharan Foga <sha...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2019/02/22 23:12:29, Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > During the DISCUSS and VOTE threads I tried to postpone any
> discussion
> > > > > about the actual content and technical bits but now would be a
> great
> > > time
> > > > > to start.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know that Dmitriy was eager to get started and Christofer
> also
> > > > explained
> > > > > his workflow briefly. Maybe you could go into more detail?
> > > > > Christofer demonstrated his own tooling to us and I really
> liked it.
> > > This
> > > > > could be a great start.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sorry this is going to be a bit longer and maybe a bit
> "rambling".
> > > > Take
> > > > > it as you will. I just needed to write it down once :)
> > > > >
> > > > > When we've done trainings so far they usually consist of a
> couple of
> > > > things:
> > > > >
> > > > > * Slides (for us usually in Powerpoint)
> > > > > * Whiteboard sessions (usually the most interesting parts
> because they
> > > > > usually are the result of attendee feedback/questions)
> > > > > * Labs (the actual content, things that attendees need to
> "solve"/do)
> > > > > * Lab setup (especially for the larger distributed systems
> getting a
> > > > > realistic setup of the tools itself for all attendees isn't
> trivia
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure I'm missing something.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Lars - this is good. Off the top of my head a couple of
> things
> > > came
> > > > to mind - the first is testing (to see how much attendees have
> learned
> > > and
> > > > this could be linked to certification which I think was
> mentioned in one
> > > of
> > > > the threads) and the second was a way of collecting feedback
> about the
> > > > training - so perhaps a survey
> > > >
> > >
> > > Those are good points I didn't think of.
> > >
> > > Tests we have never done by choice but I see that people might be
> > > interested in them and surveys are something that we probably
> should have
> > > done ourselves a long time ago already. So: Definitely.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > What should our scope be?
> > > > > Our initial idea centered around Slides and Labs. It would be
> great to
> > > > also
> > > > > have something that makes the Labs setup easier but in our
> experience
> > > > > that's pretty hard (e.g. corporate firewalls don't allow
> access to X or
> > > > Y)
> > > > > to make generic (that shouldn't stop us from trying!)
> > > > >
> > > > > Slides:
> > > > > I'd love to have a workflow where I can design slides
> entirelly in
> > > > > Asciidoc. That makes them easily versionable and composable.
> Should we
> > > > > allow multiple formats? If we decide on a text-only format and
> someone
> > > > > donates a bunch of courses in Powerpoint. Would we deny that?
> > > >
> > > > I think that we would want to accept contribution that is
> relevant. There
> > > > may be an overhead to convert the content into a more generic
> format but
> > > > that's doable especially if it encourages contributions.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I assume you meant "any contribution"?
> > > In general I agree but any binary format (e.g. Powerpoint - I'll
> call it
> > > binary even though it's really XML now but it's pretty useless for
> what I'm
> > > going to mention or PDF) has the problem that doing reviews is
> tedious to
> > > impossible. There's no good way (I know of) to create diffs for
> example and
> > > people on Linux are left out entirely for Powerpoint.
> > >
> > > I currently believe having "one true format" for all of them is a
> good idea
> > > (I am happy to be convinced otherwise), maybe with a kind of
> "staging" area
> > > of accepted contributons that have yet to be converted and are not
> coverd
> > > by "quality guarantees".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Labs:
> > > > > Similarly for Labs we've had a good experience with (e.g.)
> > > > > https://antora.org/ which also allows to create documentation
> in
> > > > Asciidoc
> > > > > and create a website out of it. But there's lots of ideas on
> how to
> > > > improve
> > > > > this (e.g. Notebooks in Zeppelin) and it'll also be way
> different
> > > > depending
> > > > > on the training topic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Audience/Customizability/Composability
> > > > > I would assume that our trainings will also be used by
> non-commercial
> > > > folks
> > > > > or people needing to give a training in-house at their
> companies. For
> > > > them
> > > > > a prepared "deck" with ASF branding is fine but others might
> want to
> > > > > incorporate these slides into their own work (see the Legal
> thread) and
> > > > > also compose their own out of smaller "components".
> > > > > So for me a good thing would be if we produce smaller
> "chapters" of
> > > > things
> > > > > that can then be composed however one would like and to make
> our
> > > product
> > > > > customizabile (e.g. custom header, footer, background colors
> etc.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Apache vs. non-Apache // Product vs. non-product
> > > > > I wouldn't want to limit us to Apache products. I don't see a
> reason
> > > not
> > > > to
> > > > > also talk about 3rd party tools. Especially if they are
tightly
> > > > integrated
> > > > > into the ecosystem (e.g. the ELK stack is often used alongside
> Hadoop).
> > > >
> > > > +1 I like the idea and it also could make our content valuable
> to others
> > > > outside the ASF
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I also don't see a reason to only focus on
>
<https://maps.google.com/?q=%3E+I+also+don't+see+a+reason+to+only+focus+on+&entry=gmail&source=g>single
> products. A training
> > > > > could focus on "IoT" and cover lots of products.
> > > >
> > > > +1 this will also give the Apache projects visibility of others
> in the
> > > > same domain. I'm not really sure how cross pollinated our
> projects are.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In a similar vein it doesn't always have to be technical
> products. I've
> > > > > already been approached from multiple people about "The Apache
> Way"
> > > > > presentations. Now whether they make more sense in ComDev is
> to be
> > > > decided.
> > > > > Maybe Sharan can weigh in?
> > > >
> > > > I think Training would be a great place for managing the Apache
> Way
> > > > content. In ComDev we've tried to gather and collate this type
> of content
> > > > and have ended up with a page of different presentation slides.
> Each
> > > person
> > > > has a different spin on it - so creating something standard as a
> nice off
> > > > the shelf template that anyone can use will be great. And I'm
> happy to
> > > > ensure we maintain a link and communicate with ComDev regularly
> so
> > > > potential contributors know about what we are doing here in
> Training.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Okay, that's good!
> > > As you said: There's a dozen of those out there now.
> > >
> > > Lars
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Sharan
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Lars
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>
>
> --
> Sönke Liebau
> Partner
> Tel. +49 179 7940878 <+49%20179%207940878>
> OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany
>
>
>
