On 02/14/20 19:25, Sean via Groups.Io wrote:
> Soumya,
> I would like to add three things to community discussions especially around 
> governance and process.
> 
> 1. RFC: The RFC process seems to get only minimal comments and a lot gets 
> lost in the noise of the lists.  There isn't a good "final" state where all 
> approved RFCs can be seen.  The process is entirely driven by the submitter 
> and thus there is little consistency.   I wanted to highlight another project 
> and how they handle this. https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs ( 
> https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs ) As a casual observer it is very easy to 
> review their RFCs (in flight and approved/rejected) as well as understand how 
> to create and submit one if so desired.  The tooling is just git/github so it 
> is familiar to the target audience and has a strong ability to track 
> progress, show history, and be backed up like any code project.  They also 
> leverage github issue tracker for pre rfc conversation and discussions.

I agree that RFCs get sorely little attention from the community.

... From my personal perspective, it's not because the RFCs are not
visible -- I simply don't have time to even *understand* most RFCs for
their merits. For example, I checked out Microsoft's VariablePolicy
slides. The design seemed systematic and I appreciated that, it's just
that I couldn't bring myself to make half-cooked comments (regardless of
forum), because those wouldn't do justice to the topic, and I simply
couldn't commit to a deeper involvement.

I can imagine that others appear to ignore several RFCs due to similar
(capacity) reasons.

> 2. Bugs/Features/Releases:  First the bug triage and scrub is not very well 
> attended.  I know it is hard to get a ww audience together on a call

Personal angle again:
- synchronous communication hampers my throughput
- got quickly demotivated by perceiving significantly less effort from
others

Bug triage is a thankless job.

> but i think part of the goal was to offer a public process and a place to 
> learn/discuss.  Is there a better way that still meets those goals?  
> Secondly, the number of bugs that get discussed is pretty small and the list 
> of open bugzillas are grower faster than the triage effort.  Third, the 
> results are pretty minimal.  Usually a change in owner and a very short 
> comment asking the owner to look at it is the result of the triage.  There is 
> sometimes good conversation (assuming knowledgeable parties are in 
> attendance) but this is impractical to capture into the bugzilla while still 
> keeping forward progress.

Can you please clarify this suggested conflict (between capturing good
technical discussion in the BZ tickets, and "forward progress")?

I think Bugzilla tickets are the best place to capture the focused
analysis of a bug. I write a *lot* of text in Red Hat bugzillas (most of
them are public, luckily!) -- I want to document my own "adventure" with
the issue, even if most paths prove dead-ends in the end. How does that
conflict with "forward progress"?

>   Finally, as an submitter of a lot of open/unconfirmed bugs it is not very 
>easy to understand the owners priorities and when the bug will be fixed and 
>merged to master/stable tag.

Agreed 100%. Lack of visibility into planning / resource allocation is
the worst. I sometimes have no choice but to "shed load" (review
requests etc). What I find important is to be honest about such cases,
and state "sorry, you've been dropped off my queue" reasonably quickly.
Leaving others hanging is one of the *worst* faces of open / distributed
development.

> I am happy to contribute effort to making a new process but want to 
> understand if others are frustrated by this as well.

Oh yes.

> 
> 3. Discussions: I wanted to know if anyone has experience with user forums 
> like https://www.discourse.org/.  Again the rust community uses this and it 
> is a pretty nice interface for async communication that doesn't involve mail 
> server and client configuration challenges, corporate policies, and the noise 
> of email.

(You know my opinion on email ;))

Thanks
Laszlo


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