Cc:ing the devel list.
Yes, there is a lot of Python work in and around OLPC; some people are
also trying to use pygame as a model/kernel for a general intro-to-Python
tutorial... Bridge builder is pretty fly; I don't see why something with
a similar physics engine couldnt' be built without high-end requirements.
SJ
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, Ben Sawyer wrote:
I don't know the author per-se but InXile Entertainment just licensed the
rights to make it into a game. While I think the educational aspects of it
are not as explicit as other things people cite we shouldn't forget the sheer
creativity it represents and the ideas it offers in terms iterative
development and other interesting aspects.
There are many etoys (bridge builder anyone?
http://downloads.theregister.co.uk/Windows/Games/Building/bridge-builder.html
yes high-end requirements but humor me) and games that could be identified
for the laptops and of course many are built in Flash but I agree in general
that part of the core goal really being discussed here is the idea that there
be some etoy/game like programming system that is ideally suited to the
laptops.
My gut tells me the script flash within flash is probably a dead end for any
number of reasons but I think it's a good conversation to force on adobe
(even if it were a special version they did and then ported everywhere) on.
I don't know enough about Squeak to know if it really fits the vision of
things like Click-n-Play and other "gamemaker/etoy" maker products we've had
in gaming but my sense is that despite it being used to make games by kids
that it probably doesn't do it to the degree and focus those products have.
It's complimentary to some extent perhaps even a step above as it moves you
further up the programming scale then a gamemaker but again I don't see it
1:1.
The critical issue will not be the issues of scripting or programming but of
the entire IDE and graphics process which is where from an etoy/game making
perspective is where the hard work lies. Perhaps something that is written
to combine SDL with PyGame? (www.pygame.org) Again the problem here is that
there isn't much of an IDE and graphics environment here but we might be able
to construct something with this that then works easily as I believe Python
support is quite heavy with OLPC. The students at CMU's Entertainment
Technology Center are working with PyGame and Jesse Schell from CMU
recommended it highly.
Sorry for lurking but my .02
- Ben
On Jan 17, 2007, at 12:23 AM, Samuel Klein wrote:
I love this discussion. I also REALLY want linerider on the laptops...
Does anyone know *fsk , the author?
http://lineridervideos.blogspot.com/
We're reaching thread-length and cc: length for a public list.
Can we take this discussion [and the notes below] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
SJ
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, GameMogul wrote:
As far as networking would go, *that* is where we have our proprietary
coding, right? Because there's no way to *just* use AS for multiplayer
flash games, you have to have server-side code (whatever language) to
control this, and interact with each client. Multiplayer usage won't be
supported in non-OLPC machines, right?
And to answer Joshua, loading local files is easy if the files are
XML-based (shortened with URL-shortener):
http://geobay.com/f12341
You are right in that you can't save files... like you think. Look at
what line-rider does. How does it remember the 'levels' you make?
SharedObjects.
Here's an example of LineRider's cache path for M$ (honestly, I don't know
Gnash's Flash cache for Linux... likely
/home/<user>/.gnash/etc./etc./etc.):
For the exe:
C:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Application Data\
Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\
<some stupid cache name: LVSZR946>\localhost\
Documents and Settings\<user name>\Desktop\
LineRider_beta.exe\undefined.sol
For the web player:
C:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Application Data\
Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\
<some stupid cache name: LVSZR946>\ic1.deviantart.com\
fs12\f\2006\266\6\f\engin2_16devart.swf\undefined.sol
In this final folder is a Shared Object Library (SOL) file, where *all*
the level information is saved. There is a (albeit... not nice way)
possible way to save user input, and just have it available next time they
launch the application.
I know it's no the best solution, but I'm just putting it out there.
-Zak
Alan Kay wrote:
The plan is go further than this. The thinking has been that each OLPC
machine will be a server, and can serve itself if there is no network
connectivity.
Again, there is no problem making any of this happen on the OLPC machine.
The entire environment and permissions are controlled. It's helping
children who don't have these machines in the rest of the world to be
part of the same conversation and activities.
Cheers,
Alan
At 03:25 PM 1/16/2007, Joshua Ellis wrote:
Okay, I understand now. The key is to have the simple IDE easily
deployable across platforms, not just the SWFs it creates. I'm sorry
-- I lost that somewhere.
One of the main problems is that Flash *cannot* interact with the host
file system at all. It can't write files. I don't even think it can
*load* local files. (I've never tried, but it's a pretty good
assumption.) And this is unlikely to change -- it's a security thing.
Adobe's Flex Server can compile apps over the network on the fly:
check out http://try.flex.org/index.cfm to see an example. And this
would be possible to replicate as an open-source tool.
SJ mentioned to me the idea of a server OLPC as well as a client one
-- from what he'd said, I'd envisioned a sort of LAN where all of the
laptop OLPCs could connect to one server OLPC, which could function as
a router, or a machine for a teacher. If this is the case, couldn't
one run a compiler on *that* machine?
jze
On 1/16/07, GameMogul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, if we had the ability to use outside applications, then, like
Alan
said, why are we stuck to Flash to begin with? If we want this to play
on ALL flash-capable computers... it has to built-in. If there are
external applications or external linkages to the Internet required
(i.e. server-side scripts), then it is very limited; such as, as Alan
said, school-districts not allowing the installation of executables.
Which also brings up the point of Internet-dependency, *requiring*
server scripts would make it so that people had to have a connection.
What if a laptop is out of range of others? Unfortunately, you
couldn't
say we'd just use a PHP engine on the laptop, because 1) large
size-bloat there and 2) it wouldn't work for just your average Joe on
an
M$ box who won't have a PHP engine on his computer.
-Zak
Joshua Ellis wrote:
Also, has anybody looked at Apollo yet?
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Apollo:developerfaq
If you could get Adobe to release/write a version of the Apollo
runtime for OLPC, that would kick serious ass -- you could develop
apps for the OLPC in HTML/Flash/Flex/CSS/Javascript!
jze
On 1/16/07, Joshua Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Also, here's a consideration: Flex generates Flash apps based on the
MXML language. So wouldn't it be possible to create a simple Flash
IDE
that generates MXML files, which could then be passed to a compiler,
rather than trying to make Flash evaluate user-written code from
within the player itself?
Oh, my poor head is aching. :-)
jze
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