On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 4:49:03 PM MST Japheth Cleaver wrote: > On 8/27/2019 4:01 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > On Tue, 2019-08-27 at 15:06 +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote: > > > >> mcatanz...@gnome.org píše v Út 27. 08. 2019 v 15:07 +0300: > >> > >>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 4:22 AM, John Harris <joh...@splentity.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> No, that is not how this works, at all. First, let's go ahead and > >>>> address the > >>>> idea that "if the firewall blocks it, the app breaks, so it's the > >>>> firewall's > >>>> fault": It's not. If the firewall has not been opened, that just > >>>> means it > >>>> can't be accessed by remote systems until you EXPLICITLY open that > >>>> port, with > >>>> the correct protocol, on your firewall. That's FINE. That's how > >>>> it's designed > >>>> to work. There's nothing wrong with that. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This means that the system administrator (or owner, if this is > >>>> some > >>>> individual's personal system) must allow the port to be accessed > >>>> remotely, > >>>> before the app can be reached remotely, increasing the security of > >>>> the system. > >>> > >>> You've already lost me here. Sorry, but we do not and will not > >>> install a firewall GUI that exposes complex technical details like > >>> port numbers. Expecting users to edit firewall rules to use their > >>> apps is ridiculous and I'm not really interested in debating it. > >> > >> Yeah, when you ask users questions they're not qualified to answer, > >> you're just creating bad design. > >> I always imagine my mom (who BTW has been a Fedora user for years) how > >> she'd deal with that and I can't really imagine her opening/closing > >> firewall ports. She'd be puzzled even by "Do you trust this network?" > >> and would probably just click "Yes" to make it go away. No additional > >> security, just annoying UX. > > > > However, Fedora Workstation is an edition. Which means it has a > > *policy-defined* target audience. That target audience is defined here: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Workstation_PRD#Target_Audience > > > > > > > > > > Case 1: "Engineering/CS student" > > Case 2: "Independent Developer" > > Case 3: "Small Company Developer" > > Case 4: "Developer in a Large Organization" > > > > > > > > Are those people we believe do not understand the concepts associated > > with firewalls? > > > The term "Workstation" itself has a long pedigree and is laden with a > variety of connotations. The failure here may be that that term has been > conflated with "Desktop". Your mother surfing Facebook may benefit from > a "Linux Desktop" (maybe.), but she's probably not the target for a > "Linux Workstation" unless https://xkcd.com/327/ is likely to happen. > > "Fedora as a Distro" could do a better job of articulating this > distinction. Perhaps a user vs. poweruser split is viable at > install/config time, or perhaps Desktop and Workstation would warrant > separate Editions. > > "Fedora as a Project", OTOH, seems to be reaching a point where so many > downstream users have varying needs (and I'm including Editions, Atomic, > Container folks, EPEL as a side project, and RHEL/CentOS/SL here) that a > fundamental project re-architecture is getting to be warranted. > > -jc > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List > Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List > Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
"Workstation" literally means a station to work at. Any computer you can do work on is a workstation. My workstation is an X200 Tablet running Fedora KDE Spin, for example. If there is to be a Desktop edition, I vote KDE is the default DE of it. -- John M. Harris, Jr. <joh...@splentity.com> Splentity https://splentity.com/ _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
