> Sounds good on paper, but I don't see this being a thing a lot of people will > want to jump into. > A lot of people working on Fedora are doing so because there's one small > thing they want to work on, or one small area they want to help improve. Most > of the discussions that come up are as a result of those motives. Generally > people aren't going to discourse or hte mailing list to casually discuss > 'best practices'. What you're proposing sounds more like a university > programming club than something for Fedora focused.
Yes. Due to my own motives, I have decided to post onto this mailing list. I think it would be valuable to have extra places to discuss SW engineering processes, specifically. Fedora packagers would easily be able to communicate with the SW engineers directly responsible for their packaging woes, and I would also have a place to potentially communicate with other SW engineers. The discussion probably wouldn't just be limited to practices, but I think its a good start. > I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'CPU programming'... that's > just... programming. As for GPU Programming... do you mean CUDA? Vulcan? > OPENCL? As stated before, Fedora isn't really a programming education > community. So I don't know that Fedora is the right place for this. You guys have packaging mentors, right? I don't see any harm in having something similar for programming, although this will likely only be a factor way down the line if needed. > Also, the overwhelming majority of software in Fedora is written and created > outside of the project. Fedora is just the consumer of that software. It > sounds like you think the Fedora Project is writing all the software that we > use. If so, that's not the case. We sometimes have to tweak an upstream > project, but as a project we're not responsible for developing most of the > software available in the repos. I merely believe that Fedora should have *some* say in how required userspace software is to be made. This is one way to potentially accomplish this end. > There already are a bunch of these for stuff created in project for the > infra, installers, other tooling, etc; so I'm not sure what you're proposing > here. I'm not proposing anything in particular. I don't know as of now what kind of software Fedora users use, whether it is used personally, or used for SW development, or whether it is deployed on servers. If I were to have a *guess* as to what may be proposed for the SIG in the future, it may be various low level CPython glue code libraries built specifically to minimize dependencies. > Generally in open source people find the thing they care about, and then work > on it. There are millions and millions of open source projects out there > people can work on. I dont think there's a lack of places people can go to > get involved if they want to. So for what you're proposing... what does > Fedora offer to these people? Again, Fedora is a distro, it's not where most > of the software is being written. We attract devs, because they're using > Fedora, and there's some small thing they would like to improve. I'm not expecting a bunch of SW engineers to suddenly flock over to the new SIG, and build large-scale software. I'm well aware that the SIG will *have* to start small. > As for Fedora's position, I'd venture a guess that most linux users are aware > of Fedora. We're one of the largest distros out there and the first stop for > many new linux users. I'm not sure what you're envisioning regarding your > comment about how this SIG would "greatly increase Fedora's position'. Fedora will have more say in what software gets produced. This will lessen the load on packagers, as they can now easily request that problematic SW gets changed. I'm not just talking about Fedora's popularity here. > That may be the case, but you're asking for a ton of work, and no clear > defined benefit to the project or the people who would be doing all this work > beyond vague claims that 'things will be better'. I'd venture that >95% of > the effort done in the overall Fedora Project is volunteer. How are you > proposing to get people to do more than they already are? > > I'm all for improving things, but there needs to be a clear plan; and right > now I'm not seeing one. Are you saying that the AI bros have a plan?!? Because I'm not seeing one, except for the plan that involves throwing a ridiculous amount of funds towards buildings that may or may never be complete, and shoehorning LLMs into places they ought not to be. At the very least, I am not proposing that Fedora packagers should shoehorn random nondescript software into Fedora Workstation/Server, with no rhyme or reason. Part of what I'm doing with these series of emails, is trying to discover what people actually *want.* Sure, I can produce software for myself, but will anyone else use it? I don't know. Much of the software I make ends up thrown away in due time. > With all of that being said though, you're free to start a SIG, maybe you'll > find a bunch of like minded people who want to talk about things. Thanks. I don't know if I will, since it might not gain enough speed to lift off the ground. I've been secretly hoping someone with more levers to pull, and more connections to important people, will start the SIG before I do. If this doesn't happen, then I may just start the SIG myself, and see what happens. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Friday, June 19th, 2026 at 13:53, JT <[email protected]> wrote: > > I plan to start a new SW engineering SIG. I don't have a planned > > scope for this SIG, however, I do have a synopsis of what it will > > likely look like: > > > > - A place for SW engineers to share opinions and discuss SW > > practices (good or bad) > > Sounds good on paper, but I don't see this being a thing a lot of people will > want to jump into. > A lot of people working on Fedora are doing so because there's one small > thing they want to work on, or one small area they want to help improve. Most > of the discussions that come up are as a result of those motives. Generally > people aren't going to discourse or hte mailing list to casually discuss > 'best practices'. What you're proposing sounds more like a university > programming club than something for Fedora focused. > > > - Detailed wiki > > Creating/maintaining a wiki is an extremely large amount of work. There's a > reason that there's a lot of outdated info in the Fedora wiki. How are you > going to encourage people to do that? > > > - Extensive documentation of various programming languages on Forge > > Why would we duplicate upstream language docs? Fedora isn't really a place to > go to learn about a programming language. Sure there are people here that can > help if you are programming in something and run into a problem with a piece > of software. But we're not a developer education community that is trying to > teach people how to program. > > > - Large amount of focus placed on GPU programming, as well as CPU > > programming > > I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'CPU programming'... that's > just... programming. As for GPU Programming... do you mean CUDA? Vulcan? > OPENCL? As stated before, Fedora isn't really a programming education > community. So I don't know that Fedora is the right place for this. > > Also, the overwhelming majority of software in Fedora is written and created > outside of the project. Fedora is just the consumer of that software. It > sounds like you think the Fedora Project is writing all the software that we > use. If so, that's not the case. We sometimes have to tweak an upstream > project, but as a project we're not responsible for developing most of the > software available in the repos. > > > - Various software repositories made by the community on Forge > > There already are a bunch of these for stuff created in project for the > infra, installers, other tooling, etc; so I'm not sure what you're proposing > here. > > > I was thinking along the lines of establishing a SW engineering base on > > Fedora, sort of in the same way that Fedora has a packaging base currently. > > Packaging is -DIRECTLY- related to Fedora because that's how you install > packages. That's why there's a SIG for it. > > > In the long term, if we have more SW engineers joining the Fedora > > community, it would greatly increase Fedora's position in the Linux > > community overall. > > Generally in open source people find the thing they care about, and then work > on it. There are millions and millions of open source projects out there > people can work on. I dont think there's a lack of places people can go to > get involved if they want to. So for what you're proposing... what does > Fedora offer to these people? Again, Fedora is a distro, it's not where most > of the software is being written. We attract devs, because they're using > Fedora, and there's some small thing they would like to improve. > As for Fedora's position, I'd venture a guess that most linux users are aware > of Fedora. We're one of the largest distros out there and the first stop for > many new linux users. I'm not sure what you're envisioning regarding your > comment about how this SIG would "greatly increase Fedora's position'. > > > I have reason to believe that the SW industry is in a dire spot, with lots > > of needs being unmet, both when it comes to individual consumers, as well > > as large corporations and industries. > > That may be the case, but you're asking for a ton of work, and no clear > defined benefit to the project or the people who would be doing all this work > beyond vague claims that 'things will be better'. I'd venture that >95% of > the effort done in the overall Fedora Project is volunteer. How are you > proposing to get people to do more than they already are? > > I'm all for improving things, but there needs to be a clear plan; and right > now I'm not seeing one. > > With all of that being said though, you're free to start a SIG, maybe you'll > find a bunch of like minded people who want to talk about things. > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2026 at 1:04 PM CS Sushi Man via devel > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I was thinking along the lines of establishing a SW engineering > > base on Fedora, sort of in the same way that Fedora has a packaging > > base currently. As for my own personal goals, which also happen to > > help Fedora's packagers, I hope to reduce software complexity, in > > particular, when it comes to dependencies. > > > > Again, I'm unsure if the SIG will catch on. I wasn't planning on > > having the SIG host content on Forge immediately. In the long term, > > if we have more SW engineers joining the Fedora community, it would > > greatly increase Fedora's position in the Linux community overall. > > > > Fedora will simply have far more say in what gets done within the > > SW industry overall, not just within its currently small packaging > > scope. Having a Forge would help to reign in *some* software > > engineers, who have become disillusioned with GitHub, and wish to > > contribute in some way to open source. > > > > I have reason to believe that the SW industry is in a dire spot, > > with lots of needs being unmet, both when it comes to individual > > consumers, as well as large corporations and industries. I also > > have reason to believe that AI hype has overshadowed these needs, > > and that it leaves them unaccounted for. > > > > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > > > On Friday, June 19th, 2026 at 12:07, Fabio Valentini <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2026 at 5:23 PM CS Sushi Man via devel > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I plan to start a new SW engineering SIG. I don't have a planned > > > > scope for this SIG, however, I do have a synopsis of what it will > > > > likely look like: > > > > > > > > - A place for SW engineers to share opinions and discuss SW > > > > practices (good or bad) > > > > - Detailed wiki > > > > - Extensive documentation of various programming languages on Forge > > > > - Large amount of focus placed on GPU programming, as well as CPU > > > > programming > > > > - Various software repositories made by the community on Forge > > > > > > One thing that isn't answered here - how would this SIG be related / > > > specific to Fedora? > > > Just going by your description, it sounds like it wouldn't be - and in > > > that case, it would probably not be appropriate to host its content on > > > forge.fedoraproject.org. > > > > > > Fabio > > > -- > > -- -- _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
