=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2011-08-07) ===================================
Meeting started by ajax at 17:01:26 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-08-08/fesco.2011-08-08-17.01.log.html . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (ajax, 17:01:27) * #563 suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags (ajax, 17:03:27) * LINK: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-August/155358.html (ajax, 17:03:54) * ACTION: ajax to update the draft page for FPC to create guidelines (ajax, 17:07:57) * ACTION: ajax to forward summary email to devel-announce (ajax, 17:09:23) * ACTION: ajax to email lists when all updates in place (ajax, 17:09:32) * #615 Strategy for services that do not have systemd native unit (ajax, 17:12:25) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/Features/SysVtoSystemd (Viking-Ice, 17:15:15) * ACTION: sgallagh to talk to virt people about dnsmasq (ajax, 17:17:45) * ACTION: remaining four packages (iscsi, dnsmasq, openvpn, wpa_supplicant) targeted for conversion by beta (ajax, 17:30:49) * AGREED: try for converting all services on the dvd by beta. (ajax, 17:43:08) * #654 Proven packager request (ajax, 17:43:32) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2514 (should see if that can be closed) (nirik, 17:49:09) * AGREED: ppisar's provenpackager request is accepted (ajax, 17:50:19) * fesco members as sponsors (ajax, 17:51:06) * ACTION: nirik to dig in archives for fesco-as-sponsor background and report next week (ajax, 17:54:17) * Next week's chair (ajax, 17:54:28) * t8m to chair next week * Open Floor (ajax, 17:55:48) Meeting ended at 18:01:30 UTC. Action Items ------------ * ajax to update the draft page for FPC to create guidelines * ajax to forward summary email to devel-announce * ajax to email lists when all updates in place * sgallagh to talk to virt people about dnsmasq * remaining four packages (iscsi, dnsmasq, openvpn, wpa_supplicant) targeted for conversion by beta * nirik to dig in archives for fesco-as-sponsor background and report next week Action Items, by person ----------------------- * ajax * ajax to update the draft page for FPC to create guidelines * ajax to forward summary email to devel-announce * ajax to email lists when all updates in place * nirik * nirik to dig in archives for fesco-as-sponsor background and report next week * sgallagh * sgallagh to talk to virt people about dnsmasq * **UNASSIGNED** * remaining four packages (iscsi, dnsmasq, openvpn, wpa_supplicant) targeted for conversion by beta People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * ajax (81) * nirik (59) * Viking-Ice (47) * sgallagh (28) * notting (26) * pjones (23) * mjg59 (17) * mmaslano (15) * zodbot (7) * t8m (0) * cwickert (0) --- 17:01:26 <ajax> #startmeeting FESCO (2011-08-07) 17:01:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Aug 8 17:01:26 2011 UTC. The chair is ajax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:01:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:01:26 <ajax> #meetingname fesco 17:01:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 17:01:27 <ajax> #chair ajax notting nirik cwickert mjg59 mmaslano t8m pjones sgallagh 17:01:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: ajax cwickert mjg59 mmaslano nirik notting pjones sgallagh t8m 17:01:27 <ajax> #topic init process 17:01:36 <mmaslano> hello 17:01:36 * nirik waves. Morning folks. 17:01:37 * sgallagh waves 17:02:00 <ajax> only people missing by my count are cwickert and t8m, assuming people aren't just idling 17:02:14 <mmaslano> t8m is on vacation 17:02:47 <notting> i'm here. have to leave a few minutes before 2pm, though 17:02:55 <ajax> no worries, should be quite quick today 17:03:22 <ajax> well, we've got quorum, let's dive in. 17:03:27 <ajax> #topic #563 suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags 17:03:27 <ajax> .fesco 563 17:03:28 <zodbot> ajax: #563 (suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/563 17:03:51 <ajax> i just sent a small novel to devel@ outlining how this will all work 17:03:54 <ajax> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-August/155358.html 17:04:02 * pjones is here 17:04:06 <nirik> great work ajax. 17:04:16 <nirik> clear and nice. ;) You might also send a copy to devel-announce? 17:04:31 <ajax> i got to learn far too much about two different languages, both called "spec". i would like to forget. 17:04:36 <sgallagh> ajax: One thing just occurred to me about that. There's a lot of combined requirement between rpm, redhat-rpm-config and gcc. Might it not be wise to get them all into the same bodhi update? 17:04:53 <ajax> nirik: good idea, will do 17:05:20 <notting> any plans to backport? 17:05:34 <pjones> please no. 17:05:35 * notting is fine with 'no', just want to clarify. 17:05:46 <sgallagh> notting: From ajax's write-up, I'd say that's probably both unwise and unsafe :) 17:05:49 <nirik> ajax: also, could you add the macro info to the draft page? then I can re-ping FPC and they can get it setup as a guideline. 17:05:51 <ajax> sgallagh: think that ends up being a little tough to do since i don't own the gcc update. but they're all pretty harmless individually for packages not using the _hardened_build macro 17:06:16 <sgallagh> ajax: Right, but it becomes difficult to know exactly when your builds are actually using it 17:06:25 <ajax> notting: to pre-f16? i don't intend to, no. 17:06:26 <pjones> ajax: so really just make sure it's last. 17:06:40 <pjones> sgallagh: nothing is using it until it's there. 17:06:43 <sgallagh> Also, I believe any provenpackager can combine the assorted Koji builds into a single Bodhi update 17:06:48 <sgallagh> pjones: Not true. 17:07:00 <sgallagh> If redhat-rpm-config hits before gcc, there could be issues 17:07:12 <pjones> uh, reread what I said. 17:07:18 <ajax> sgallagh: both the r-r-c and rpm updates have karma automatism turned off (for this reason) 17:07:41 <ajax> nirik: yes, will update the draft page 17:07:55 <nirik> thanks. 17:07:57 <ajax> #action ajax to update the draft page for FPC to create guidelines 17:08:06 <sgallagh> ok 17:08:49 <ajax> partly because i'm doing a non-maintainer upload for rpm, so i want to give them the opportunity to say i'm a terrible person and back all my changes out if they want 17:09:04 <ajax> but in fairness... 17:09:23 <ajax> #action ajax to forward summary email to devel-announce 17:09:32 <ajax> #action ajax to email lists when all updates in place 17:09:48 <mjg59> Sorry, I'm here 17:10:24 <sgallagh> ajax: No problem. I just wanted to make sure we didn't hit any issues rolling this out. 17:10:44 <pjones> (just fwiw, we seem to have started the meeting without quorum but rectified that sense then) 17:11:10 <ajax> pjones: not 5 of 9? my bad. 17:11:23 <ajax> sgallagh: no worries, caution is appreciated here. 17:11:33 <ajax> moving on in a moment if there's nothing else 17:11:36 <pjones> hrm, may have been. anyway. 17:12:25 <ajax> #topic #615 Strategy for services that do not have systemd native unit 17:12:25 <ajax> .fesco 615 17:12:27 <zodbot> ajax: #615 (Strategy for services that do not have systemd native unit files) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/615 17:12:58 <ajax> any news here? 17:13:08 <Viking-Ice> depends on what you mean news 17:13:25 <pjones> the opposite of olds. 17:13:35 <pjones> something different from how it was last time we talked about it 17:13:36 <ajax> anything we need to act on that we haven't already covered in previous weeks. 17:13:40 <Viking-Ice> iscsi #714688 # maintainers wont convert from my understanding atleast for F16 ??? dnsmasq #694932 has systemd unit file # Unresponsive maintainer this packaged should find a new maintainer or be orphaned and removed openvpn #714710 has systemd unit file # Stephen Pritchard the maintainer responded "I'm trying to find some time to look at those. I'm essentially working two jobs right now, so it's rough..." wpa_supplicant #661230 has a 17:13:40 <Viking-Ice> ccepted systemd unit file dont know why Dan does not build this or did so weeks ago. 17:14:16 <sgallagh> dnsmasq can't be orphaned. WAY too many things depend on it (like libvirt) 17:14:17 <Viking-Ice> dbus and gpm got package correctly 17:14:40 * nirik is trying to parse the status. Whats the web page with that again? 17:14:48 <Viking-Ice> which only leaves avahi Lennart setting a good example there 17:15:15 <Viking-Ice> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/Features/SysVtoSystemd 17:15:55 <nirik> thanks 17:15:56 <Viking-Ice> dnsmasq and openvpn along with wpa_supplicant are not listed there 17:16:55 <Viking-Ice> sgallagh, then some ( co)maintainer(s) need to step in 17:17:21 <sgallagh> Viking-Ice: I don't disagree. I'll take an action item to see if one of the virt guys would like to step up. 17:17:45 <ajax> #action sgallagh to talk to virt people about dnsmasq 17:17:53 <Viking-Ice> wpa_supplicant needs an proven packager? 17:18:05 <nirik> I think Dan has been out/vacationing or the like. 17:18:10 <Viking-Ice> Dan accepted that unit file weeks ago 17:18:35 <Viking-Ice> are we going to pull those service into rc2 ? 17:18:49 <Viking-Ice> as in the native unit files 17:19:04 <Viking-Ice> rc2 for alpha that is or has that mark passed? 17:19:26 <nirik> Viking-Ice: I can take on wpa_wupplicant. 17:19:35 <nirik> wpa_supplicant rather. ;) 17:19:45 <nirik> Viking-Ice: I think we are late in the game for that. 17:20:05 <Viking-Ice> which brings up the question what now? 17:20:11 <Viking-Ice> as in where to go from here 17:20:13 <notting> given that all of these are for non-default configs 17:20:56 * nirik nods. Yeah, except iscsi 17:21:39 <notting> also, the wpa_supplicant service file in the bug doesn't seem to match the upstream discussion, unless I'm missing something 17:21:59 <Viking-Ice> you are missing something I asked Dan about that 17:22:12 <Viking-Ice> if you are speaking of wpa discussion on systemd-devel 17:23:25 <nirik> and? the ones in the bug are what he would like? or ? 17:23:26 <Viking-Ice> Oh Legacy network servers might be done 17:23:33 <Viking-Ice> nirik, yes 17:23:44 <Viking-Ice> the one in the bug is approved by him to be shipped and used 17:24:03 <nirik> ok, might be worth posting that to the systemd-devel list and getting acks there too? 17:24:13 <nirik> (if only after the fact0 17:24:22 <notting> Viking-Ice: which is *not* what went upstream to wpa_supplicant 17:24:48 <nirik> somehow thats got to sync up. ;) (or should) 17:24:58 <notting> upstream wpa_supplicant applied henry's packages 17:25:01 <notting> s/packages/patches/ 17:26:15 <Viking-Ice> notting, you need speak with Dan if something has changed his mind 17:26:21 <nirik> so, on iscsi can we just apply the 'use systemd in a shim that calls the sysvinit script' ? 17:26:24 <notting> huh? 17:26:27 <notting> dan's not upstream. 17:26:36 <Viking-Ice> dan owns wpa_supplicant 17:26:50 <Viking-Ice> dan knew of the thread on systemd yet sanction the wpa unit file 17:27:06 <Viking-Ice> I know nothing on what's happening upstream 17:27:12 <mjg59> Ok really not clear on what we're being asked to do here 17:27:13 <notting> ok then 17:27:29 <Viking-Ice> so nirik can package the wpa_supplicant file 17:27:31 <notting> if you know nothing on what's happening upstream, you probably shouldn't be asking provenpackagers to add something 17:27:46 <nirik> Viking-Ice: I'd like to talk to Dan... but I can at some point. 17:27:49 <ajax> we're at 15 minutes. is this something we need to hammer on here, or can we take this to the mailing list? 17:28:14 * sgallagh is +1 for taking to the list 17:28:18 <nirik> well, I think our goal of stuff on the livecd by alpha is missing these few items... 17:28:19 <Viking-Ice> notting, I asked Fedora maintainer he should know what's happening upstream <sigh> 17:28:30 * mmaslano is also +1 for list 17:28:39 <ajax> (someplace a bit more structured) 17:28:50 <mjg59> Yeah, divergence from upstream is best handled by someone who knows upstream 17:28:57 <nirik> Viking-Ice: I think he's been on vacation since you asked him and since upstream had a discussion. 17:29:28 <Viking-Ice> anyway beta goals ? 17:29:52 <Viking-Ice> what are they and what are you willing to do to reach them? 17:29:57 <nirik> well, finish these 4 for sure... 17:30:49 <ajax> #action remaining four packages (iscsi, dnsmasq, openvpn, wpa_supplicant) targeted for conversion by beta 17:30:52 <ajax> anything else here? 17:30:59 <Viking-Ice> is that it ? 17:31:07 * nirik looks at the status page again. 17:31:10 <ajax> dude, you're the one making all the noise about this, you tell me. 17:31:38 <ajax> i personally do not care in the slightest if we're "fully converted" by f16. 17:31:46 <Viking-Ice> ok fine by 17:31:48 <sgallagh> Well, we originally stated that our intent was to have ALL SYSV scripts converted by beta 17:31:51 <Viking-Ice> let's stop then here an now 17:32:07 <sgallagh> Are we now proposing to change that? 17:32:19 <mmaslano> sgallagh: are you willing to help with that? 17:32:31 * nirik thinks it's nobel to get them converted, but it's a lot of work too. 17:32:41 <ajax> sgallagh: it sounded from the above like iscsi wasn't going to happen. so. 17:32:47 <sgallagh> mmaslano: Sorry, the tone of my last statement sounded bad over IRC 17:32:55 <mmaslano> sgallagh: sorry :) 17:33:00 <pjones> nirik: noble, surely? ;) 17:33:06 <nirik> sorry, sure. 17:33:15 <sgallagh> I suppose I'm asking for us to make a firm decision on what we're willing to declare "success" on this particular Feature 17:33:17 <mmaslano> I think convert the basic services and havem them really working would be great 17:33:41 <nirik> so, another alternative.... 17:34:21 <nirik> convert everything left to use systemd with a call to their sysvinit script. Yes, this is ugly, but it means that they can then convert in f16 timeframe anytime and not run into changing in a stable release. 17:34:33 * nirik is just tossing it out there, not sure it's a good way to go. 17:34:44 <ajax> nirik: why would that be better then leaving them as they are? 17:34:51 <notting> that sounds worse than leaving thme 17:34:55 <Viking-Ice> an good reachable goal would be to finish all service in the dvd 17:34:57 <Viking-Ice> 'as well 17:35:04 <mmaslano> nirik: imho it would be harder to debug, if admin doesn't know about it 17:35:08 <nirik> well, if we leave them, they cannot convert during f16 at all. Must wait until f17 (which may not be a bad thing) 17:35:11 <notting> especially if the conversion requires changing them to instance services, or splitting them up, or.... 17:35:24 <nirik> true. 17:35:31 <notting> nirik: predictability in a released release is good 17:35:34 <nirik> Viking-Ice: how many would that leave us with? 17:35:58 <nirik> true. 17:36:18 <Viking-Ice> by groups not much to be left to convert I should mention Legacy Network Servers have been converted 17:36:43 <sgallagh> Should we consider allowing manual conversions during the F16 life? E.g., allow them to ship package-systemdunit with a manual script to convert? 17:36:48 <Viking-Ice> I had not found the time to update that package at the speed hhorak has package and shipped my submitted unit files 17:36:54 <nirik> I think trying to get the dvd ones by beta would be good. Anything after that we punt to next release. 17:37:05 <Viking-Ice> s/package/group of packages/ 17:37:08 <sgallagh> So the default would be to continue with their existing scripts, but allow a more phased roll-out? 17:37:10 <ajax> sgallagh: fpc says no. 17:37:12 <nirik> sgallagh: FPC didn't want that. 17:37:28 * sgallagh withdraws the suggestion 17:37:30 <nirik> you can't tell easily if the service was enabled or not. 17:38:15 <Viking-Ice> and you kinda cant tell afters either if it is or should be ( for example components might have switched to hardware activation this no need to enable by default ) 17:38:34 <ajax> we're at 25 minutes now and i don't think we've said much. 17:38:39 <ajax> (since 15 minutes) 17:38:45 <nirik> right, so we can: 17:38:49 <sgallagh> ajax: Well, we do have a proposal we should vote on 17:38:53 <nirik> a) just call this good for now, punt to next release 17:39:00 <sgallagh> Proposal: DVD-by-beta 17:39:01 <nirik> b) try and do things on dvd before beta 17:39:19 <mjg59> I don't see any problem with trying for DVD by beta 17:39:26 <mjg59> But I don't see it as an absolute disaster if we fail 17:39:31 <Viking-Ice> how much is fesco willing to back that upp 17:39:38 <Viking-Ice> the goal that is 17:39:47 <ajax> i'm not willing to hold up the release for it, if that's what you're asking. 17:39:59 <mjg59> We can't compel people to include code if they feel that it doesn't work 17:40:09 <mjg59> And I don't think (at this stage) it's worth delaying the release 17:40:20 <mjg59> A lot of excellent work has been done in this respect 17:40:36 <ajax> nor do i have any time to work on it. but that's just speaking for me. 17:41:27 <pjones> I too would lean towards punting, but would be perfectly content seeing it fixed before beta should that be possible. 17:41:33 <ajax> i don't have a compelling argument in front of me that delaying the release would produce an appreciably better release. 17:41:42 <ajax> but i'm happy to see as much fixed before beta as possible 17:41:48 * nirik also keeps hoping to have time to help. 17:42:20 <ajax> so then. sgallagh's proposal: try for dvd by beta. votes? 17:42:34 * ajax +1 17:42:36 <nirik> +1 to that. (and I can try and help) 17:42:38 <pjones> sure, why not. 17:42:39 <sgallagh> +1 17:42:40 <pjones> +1 17:42:43 <Viking-Ice> the main problem here are the nonresponsive maintainers not the responsive ones 17:42:50 <mmaslano> we could try +1 17:42:59 <sgallagh> Viking-Ice: So start the non-responsive maintainer process 17:43:04 <mjg59> +1 17:43:06 <pjones> Viking-Ice: so... get some provenpackagers to just go ahead and change it. 17:43:08 <ajax> #agreed try for converting all services on the dvd by beta. 17:43:10 <notting> +1 17:43:26 <ajax> on to new business! 17:43:28 <pjones> If they're non-responsive, they won't complain ;) 17:43:32 <ajax> #topic #654 Proven packager request 17:43:33 <ajax> .fesco 654 17:43:34 <zodbot> ajax: #654 (Proven packager request) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/654 17:44:03 <notting> this is for ppisar 17:44:21 <ajax> notting: the -1 you mention on the ticket: where's that list, exactly? 17:44:22 <notting> there were 4 +1s but one -1, so here we are 17:44:36 <mmaslano> on which list? I didn't see their discussion 17:44:42 <nirik> I've not interacted with them much, but trust the other +1s, so +1 here; 17:44:42 <notting> packager-sponsors 17:44:53 <notting> which ... i don't know if it's archived. nirik? 17:44:53 <nirik> the packager-sponsors-members alias. 17:45:01 <nirik> no, it's an alias. Its not a list. 17:45:18 <ajax> no wonder i couldn't find it. 17:45:32 <nirik> I think everyone in fesco should be on it tho? 17:45:34 <notting> in any case, http://fpaste.org/L79X/ 17:45:57 <pjones> I don't... think so. 17:46:06 <mmaslano> um I thought so 17:46:10 <sgallagh> nirik: I wasn't aware of it 17:46:11 <pjones> it's possible I wrote a filter for it years ago and forgot. 17:46:18 <ajax> quite sure i'm not 17:46:21 <nirik> if you are a sponsor you should be. 17:46:38 <ajax> well i ain't, so i ain't. 17:46:48 <mmaslano> in this case you should revoke my proven packager acces and we won't have new Perl next year 17:47:02 <Viking-Ice> pjones, which proven packager ( my fes ticket is still open and still unresponded too ) 17:47:10 <nirik> I think this came up a few years ago... and we agreed to promote fesco people, but I could be misremembing. 17:47:11 <sgallagh> nirik: I am not a sponsor 17:47:21 <mmaslano> me neither 17:47:24 <mjg59> Given the -1, I'm +1 17:47:35 <notting> probably just forgot to do that as a continuing process? in any case, can we discuss this *after* the provenpackager request? 17:47:45 <ajax> notting: indeed. 17:48:01 <nirik> notting: agreed. 17:48:07 <ajax> so on this request. personally i'm still irritated that we still don't have groups. 17:48:19 <ajax> but since we don't, provenpackager is the nearest proxy for that 17:48:33 <nirik> I'll note there is a infra ticket still open on that old thing... 17:49:06 <ajax> and i am in general in favor of collective ownership, and i've no reason to dislike petr's work thus far. so, +1. 17:49:09 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2514 (should see if that can be closed) 17:49:21 <pjones> ajax: yeah, that's pretty reasonable, +1 17:49:37 <notting> that's 4 +1 17:49:43 <sgallagh> +1 17:49:49 <mmaslano> +1 (again) 17:50:04 <nirik> +1 (again for clarity) 17:50:19 <ajax> #agreed ppisar's provenpackager request is accepted 17:50:20 <mjg59> Looks like enough 17:50:25 <mmaslano> thank you 17:50:48 <ajax> quick detour... 17:51:06 <ajax> #topic fesco members as sponsors 17:51:25 <nirik> yeah, I think this came up, I can look in old archives if we like. 17:51:26 <ajax> anyone have a link to the background on this, or shall we follow up next meeting? 17:52:00 <notting> the alternative would be to just subcsribe fesco to the alias, but i don't know if FAS can do tht 17:52:17 <nirik> the alternatives would be: 17:52:25 <ajax> i'd be fine with either, personally i wouldn't use the sponsorship power 17:52:26 <nirik> a) fesco people use the same process as anyone else. 17:52:40 <nirik> b) when someone new joins fesco they are made sponsor/pp 17:52:49 <ajax> but if we're expected to advise, it'd be good to be in the loop. 17:53:00 <pjones> yes. 17:53:23 <notting> b) is easier, but i don't know how you'd track things on fesco changes (who was in before, vs. who was there just from fesco) 17:53:35 <pjones> nirik: it does seem an odd idea that we trust somebody to be on fesco and not pp 17:53:40 <pjones> OTOH I can think of some names. 17:53:53 <notting> sorry, have to step out now. 17:53:54 <nirik> how about I look at archives and we discuss this next week? 17:53:58 <pjones> notting: he didn't say they get unmade 17:54:03 <ajax> nirik: sounds good 17:54:17 <ajax> #action nirik to dig in archives for fesco-as-sponsor background and report next week 17:54:25 <ajax> winding down 17:54:28 <ajax> #topic Next week's chair 17:54:29 <nirik> should we file a ticket to remind us? or ? 17:54:33 <ajax> nirik: i'll file a ticket 17:54:37 <nirik> ok. 17:54:48 <ajax> my notes say t8m's on the hook for next week's chair 17:55:28 <ajax> so, uh, i guess that's it for that 17:55:34 <sgallagh> As he's not here to defend himself, sure :) 17:55:34 <nirik> cool. 17:55:48 <ajax> #topic Open Floor 17:56:27 <ajax> will close out in two minutes if nothing comes up 17:56:32 <Viking-Ice> does fesco have legion of provenpackagers at their disposal ? 17:56:48 <ajax> Viking-Ice: not as such, no. 17:56:57 <ajax> our executive power is remarkably limited. 17:57:21 <Viking-Ice> so where am I supposed to get those provenpackagers to use? 17:57:36 <pjones> send an email? 17:57:39 <mjg59> Bring it up on list 17:57:52 <Viking-Ice> did not help last time so the list is not an option 17:57:56 <sgallagh> Viking-Ice: Send an email to devel@ with the subject line "Provenpackager assistance requested for ..." 17:58:03 <nirik> might even be good for devel-announce? 17:58:16 <mjg59> Viking-Ice: Well if nobody's willing to help then nobody's willing to help 17:58:21 <mjg59> We can't force anyone to do anything 17:58:24 <nirik> there may well be people who ignore devel due to noise that would see an announcement. 17:58:54 <Viking-Ice> what's provenpackagers purpose? 17:59:14 <ajax> to have the power to fix what they care about enough to fix 17:59:24 <mjg59> To be able to modify packages as part of some wide-ranging change to the distribution or to fix bugs the maintainer isn't working on 17:59:26 * mmaslano must leave 17:59:36 <Viking-Ice> so provenpackager fail to the same extent as proventesters? 17:59:50 <ajax> that's an opinion you're free to have, but not really on-topic. 17:59:58 <mjg59> Viking-Ice: You appear to be confused about how a volunteer organisation works 18:00:02 <ajax> or anyway, not something fesco can do anything about. 18:00:26 <mjg59> Viking-Ice: There's no way that we can task people to do something unless they're already willing to do it 18:01:12 <ajax> anyway, our hour's up, and this seems well outside fesco's scope. 18:01:15 <Viking-Ice> one would think that the purpose of proven(something) is actually to be available to assist in matters such as these and others thus when one signs up for it he knows what he's getting into 18:01:30 <ajax> #endmeeting - ajax -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
