On Yau al-Thulatha 12 Rabi` al-Thaani 1425 08:07 pm, Mohammed Elzubeir wrote: > On Tue, Jun 01, 2004 at 12:43:32PM -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > NO NO NO NO. People here always confuse LGPL with GPL. The way > > to go is to convince people to use an external library > > (compile-time optional, or even run-time optional). So, you go > > The problem, Behdad, is that we have the following situation: > > + eager developer willing to spit code by the second
No, this great developer is asking you what do you want him to program today. You can guide him to your utmost priorities. Suggestion #1: we should have priorities which is clear in our ToDo list. It should be optional but it should be there. > + bottleneck of politics and persuasion > > I can tell you that I _personally_ would rather never see anything but > FriBiDi in existence. I don't know how many other share my view, but > that's how I see it. The more bidi libraries out there the more of a > problem it could become. > > > Then, you have cases like PuTTY where it was more than just a license > issue.. it was a matter of policy to not used shared libraries. What do > we do here? We really had no choice. Again priorities. Our choice should be to support the majority of software before the minority, specific, cases. I am rather sure after an informative discussion Ahmed can see what threat minibidi can cause to GPL-compatible licenses. It's not his fault at all. It's our fault not to be aware of this from the beginning. Or may be its Behdad fault (sorry behdad) to say some harsh words that pushed Ahmed to consider elevating minibidi to a competing state. Suggestion #2: Ahmed should be asked to consider cooperating with Behdad on solving all bidi/shaping issues in fribidi. This should be discussed and a convincing resolution should be found. (sorry for these should's) A significant unique capability on Fribidi that would persuade developers to use it over minibidi should be there and should be known to every one here. I would also like to know why fribidi will continue as an LGPL not a GPL if we would have a hack like minibidi > > and give them an immediate option called miniBidi, so why should > > they ever accept another option? What you are missing is the > > You are right. That is why the whole "policy" thing was born. To say, > look, here is fribidi. They say, noway.. we say, hey, Behdad, these guys > need a little sweet talking, you got 2 weeks to do it.. (surely we will > help).. 2 weeks up, they are not budging.. stalemate. Well, we take > minibidi out. That's the whole idea. Come on! You are speaking as if you are hiding minibid in your pocket and you can handle it if and only if someone asked you for it. It will be on the open air. The real world scenario will go like this: closed source projects will use minibidi without asking you and without giving back something and even without your knowledge. > > I'm up to clear my relation to Arabeyes sometime next week. > > It's more about the policies. Mine is to contribute to Free > > Software (as defined by http://www.fsf.org/), while Arabeyes' is > > apparently not. > > > Even cooler ;) You know I love MIT/BSD style licenses ;) > > > > That's the root of our disagreement ;). > > That's a personal preference -- has nothing to do with > Arabeyes/*bidi/etc. > > > Behdad, Ahmed, do you think we can go like this? > > We already are. This is one of the examples I felt you are closing the discussion without giving good reasons. Elzubair, don't take it personally, i am just saying this because I know you won't say something bad ;) but wait... the thread is already hot and it was suggested to speak frankly rather than being obscure. Suggestion #3: harsh and unjustifiable words should not be rejected by all members, especially core, whatever the situation is. Suggestion #3: Arafat should be asked to change his tone. The "I used to be like this and people know me" attitude is not acceptable. This is just in case you are interested in finding an answer to the question why do you want to leave. Actually if it's not something pending that I want to contribute to Arabeyes, I would have left by now. Thanks Ossama for his reply! If you don't understand what I mean take a look at: http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/doc/2004/May/msg00281.html see this: "ÙØ ØÙÙÙÙ ØÙØ ÙÙ ØÙØØÙÙ" !!! >Mohammed Elzubeir wrote: > It will be under the MIT license (http://www.x.org/Downloads_terms.html) > which by the way includes the sentence: > 'Except as contained in this notice, the name of a copyright holder shall > not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other > dealings in this Software without prior written authorization of the > copyright holder.' and is regarded by GNU as more or less equivalent to the > revised BSD license. If that is the MIT license what's this? http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php May be MIT has used various licenses in the past but nowadays MIT is: Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. Am I wrong? > Even cooler ;) You know I love MIT/BSD style licenses ;) The difference between one who wants to lend a hand to all guys even evil ones and the attitude of one who lends a hand only to good guys. I prefer the latter if ever possible. -- Munzir Taha PGP Key available gpg --recv-keys --keyserver www.mandrakesecure.net F0671821 Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer Linux Registered User #279362 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake Club member Maintainer of Mandrake Arabization Project Status (MAPS) http://www.arabeyes.org/download/documents/distros/mdkarabicsupport-en/ CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS New Horizons CLC Riyadh, SA _______________________________________________ Developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.arabeyes.org/mailman/listinfo/developer
