On Sunday 18 May 2008 05:17, Florent Daignière wrote: > * Ian Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-05-17 13:35:40]: > > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:10 AM, Matthew Toseland > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Exactly, which is why Thaw, Freemail, etc are the apps that will > > >> motivate users to use Freenet. Only developers download the JRE, most > > >> users get it bundled with Java apps. The same will be true of > > >> Freenet, its a platform, most end-users don't want platforms on their > > >> own. The solution is *not* to bundle, that is just pretending that > > >> Freenet is more than it is. > > > > > > We have a lot of traffic from wikipedia. We have a lot of traffic from > > > slashdot. For a user to even understand what Thaw is he must first understand > > > what Freenet is. Thaw, Freemail, FMS and jSite, don't have any sort of web > > > presence right now. > > > > So they should get a web presence, we can't reinvent sourceforge, and > > we can't reinvent apt-get, we don't have the resources. > > > > Agreed > > > > Freenet is not the same as Java. It's a bad metaphor. Maybe it would be a > > > better metaphor if any major freenet client had a web presence and > > > significant hits of its own, but none of them do. AND WE CAN'T WAIT FOR THEM > > > TO GET ONE > > > > Why not? It would be a 30 minute job for those apps to set up with Google Code. > > > > >, for much the same reason that we couldn't wait for FMS to release > > > 0.7.0. That means we have to do what we can for *our users*, which means > > > making it as easy as possible to get these client applications. > > > > You must think our users are morons if the only way they can use an > > app is if we bundle it. FMS isn't bundled, and it seems to have no > > shortage of users. > > > > This "we've got to bundle everything" is a classic feature creep > > attitude. If you think being user friendly means installing a bunch > > of software on someone's computer without them asking for it then you > > have a bizarre notion of user friendliness. > > > > We aren't Google Code, we aren't apt-get, and we aren't Sourceforge. > > Trying to be those things will be a massive waste of resources. > > > > On the other hand, hosting freenet-related projects doesn't involve too > much overhead as far as emu's administration is concerned... And it > allows us to cross-reference bugs in between applications and the node, > which is very handy. > > > And of course there is also the issue that we would be installing > > software on people's machines which we didn't write, and which for all > > we know could contain well hidden code to delete their hard disks on > > July 4th just for a laugh. If we install this software, WE ARE > > RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT IS DOES. We don't have the resources to audit > > this code, and we can't install anonymously written code on people's > > computers without an audit. > > Agreed, that's a big concern... and reviewing all the 3rd party code we > bundle is unrealistic. > You mean the database engine (BDBJE currently), the native big integer code, the java service wrapper, etc? Or you agree with Ian that we shouldn't bundle any freenet-related code?
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