On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:54 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11 Dec 2014 at 12:46:48, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
>
>> Related to Vincent's comment:
>> As a designer I would want to be able to write CSS as simple as possible.
>
> Then just write CSS directly :)
>
>> Already I need to know that I need to add my CSS to a SSX object. I
>> wouldn't want to know that if I need to write LESS I need to use whatever
>> other object or macro.
>
> That’s not CSS, that’s LESS.
>
>> Also I want a simple solution where the existing CSS written to be easily
>> adaptable. If I need to use some FlamingoThemes variables, already is
>> complicated that I need to know that I need less.
>> So I'm not a fan of having the css in wiki syntax. I don't want to write
>> css with ruby, python or whatever. I was in need of velocity because back
>> then less didn't existed (so we didn't had variables, etc.)
>> Also I assume css and less would need different macros and maybe they would
>> need to be nested and mixed together, which is again more of a xwiki style,
>> but definitely not a 'web' style.
>
> What’s the need for a CSS macro?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
I don't want to write {{less}} or {{css}} every time I do some
styling. I really don't think we need wiki syntax (scripting macros
precisely) when writing style sheets. No one has ever asked for this.
So I'm -1. As Caty said, users should be able to paste their CSS/LESS
code without doing any useless wrapping. It's a big difference between
the content of a wiki page and the style sheet object. I want to be
able to use wiki syntax in the content of the wiki page because it
doesn't have any specific purpose. The content can be used to generate
HTML, JSON, XML, whatever, depending on the application. On the other
hand the style sheet extension object has a very specific purpose. It
should be very easy and really straightforward to use it (e.g. "don't
make me think").
> PS: Saying that you’ll never need scripting is just wishful thinking IMO… I
> can already find tons of use cases where you’d need it (not even counting the
> many places we use velocity in our SSX)...
From my experience we don't use scripting that much in SSX objects.
And when we do, it really boils down to:
(1) color theme variables, which will be replaced by LESS variables
(2) getting the URL of some internal resource (getSkinFile /
getAttachmentURL). For this, if we want to get rid of scripting we can
introduce a special syntax for the url('xyz') CSS value:
background-image: url("skin://icons/xwiki/create-link.png");
background-image: url("attach://myOwnIcon.png");
In any case, +1 for Guillaume's proposal (adding a new property to the
SSX object).
Thanks,
Marius
>
>> Thanks,
>> Caty
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > I would like to add some precisions.
>> >
>> > Most of my work during this week was on the LESS Module to be able to
>> > compile (with a cache mechanism) any kind of resources and not only files
>> > anymore.
>> >
>> > Thanks to that, my prototype of SSX implementation was easy to do in 2
>> > hours or so, and I believe using my refactored API in any other
>> > implementation (new xobjects, etc...) could be done quickly.
>> >
>> > So I am not asking you to accept an already-written-solution and we can
>> > still discuss :)
>> >
>> > What Vincent proposes seems to be a good idea. However, after some
>> > discussions with him, it would require an amount of work that is not
>> > compatible with the current release date.
>> >
>> > So my actual proposal is the following:
>> >
>> > - Modify the SSX object to introduce the LESS preprocessor, as I have
>> > proposed previously, as a temporary solution/hack.
>> > - In the future (7.x maybe?), deprecate the current SSX object and create a
>> > new SSX object that will use the wiki syntax. Create a {{less}} macro too
>> > to be able to use LESS everywhere (in new SSX objects but also in the
>> > XDOM).
>> >
>> > I hope you like this idea,
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > 2014-12-11 11:29 GMT+01:00 [email protected] :
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 11 Dec 2014 at 11:08:16, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ([email protected]
>> > > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Why do we need to add a new essx one? IMO we just add the new property
>> > > and
>> > > > make sure the default value for 'CSS preprocesor' is 'none’.
>> > >
>> > > I think you didn’t read my proposal because I explained why :)
>> > >
>> > > The solution with CSS preprocessor is a hack, doesn’t always work as
>> > > Guillaume pointed out and doesn’t support all future use cases.
>> > >
>> > > The solution I proposed solves all the needs, a lot more, and goes in the
>> > > general direction where we remove all places in xwiki where we support
>> > only
>> > > one specific language and replace that by wiki syntax (and thus support
>> > all
>> > > existing languages). In this case, it’s not normal that we support only
>> > > velocity and my proposal not only solves this but also solves using the
>> > > LESS processor or any other thing you wish to do.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > > -Vincent
>> > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > > Caty
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 11:59 AM, [email protected]
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Note that if we don’t want to break backward compatibility we keep
>> > the
>> > > > > current ssx and deprecate it and introduce a new essx one (for
>> > extended
>> > > > > ssx, or any other name…).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks
>> > > > > -Vincent
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 11 Dec 2014 at 10:54:46, [email protected] ([email protected]
>> > > (mailto:
>> > > > > [email protected])) wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Hi Guillaume,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > This is not a domain I know well so maybe what I’ll say is not
>> > > correct..
>> > > > > :)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > What about keeping the exact same xobject structure as now but
>> > > instead
>> > > > > of considering the content of the textarea to be plain text we
>> > > consider it
>> > > > > to be wiki syntax that is rendered using our plaintext renderer.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > This would allow use to use any more (including the {{velocity}}
>> > > macro,
>> > > > > {{include}} macro, etc) but it also allows us to introduce some new
>> > > > > {{less}} macro that would preprocess its content and generate CSS.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > This would also allow us to remove the “parse” option which tells
>> > us
>> > > if
>> > > > > we run velocity or not (this is actually bad since we may want to run
>> > > ruby,
>> > > > > python, groovy, etc).
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > WDYT?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks
>> > > > > > -Vincent
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On 11 Dec 2014 at 10:20:49, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
>> > > > > [email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hi.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Since the beginning of the week, I am working to have the LESS
>> > > > > > > pre-processor inside our Skin Extension objects (see:
>> > > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10708). It would enable us to
>> > > use
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > Flamingo Theme variables and all bootstrap's mixins inside SSX
>> > (see
>> > > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11374).
>> > > > > > > Example of use-case: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11408
>> > > (Menu
>> > > > > > > Application: Improve default look to make it better-looking with
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > Flamingo skin).
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I have created a design page there for the details:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/LESSModuleImprovements
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I propose to add a new property inside the
>> > > XWiki.StyleSheetExtension
>> > > > > class
>> > > > > > > which will be called "CSS preprocessor". The actual possible
>> > values
>> > > > > would
>> > > > > > > be "LESS" or "none", but in the future we can imagine having
>> > > "SASS" or
>> > > > > > > anything else. Then I propose to change the actual SSX action to
>> > > > > perform a
>> > > > > > > LESS compilation if needed. Note that the user would still be
>> > able
>> > > to
>> > > > > use
>> > > > > > > or not Velocity in addition of the CSS preprocessor.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The other possibilities (that are not part of this proposal) are
>> > to
>> > > > > create
>> > > > > > > a new XWiki.LESSStyleSheetExtension and a new LSSX action which
>> > > would
>> > > > > > > behave exactly as the previous objet and action, or to have the
>> > > > > ability to
>> > > > > > > choose the processor directly inside the SSX content, with a
>> > > special
>> > > > > line
>> > > > > > > like "# preprocessor = less" or something like that.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I have made a prototype that is working (
>> > > > > > > https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/tree/feature-less-ssx)
>> > > and I
>> > > > > am
>> > > > > > > taking care of the compatibility with older skins that do not use
>> > > LESS
>> > > > > > > (Colibri for instance).
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Here is my +1. I would like to commit it today to have it in
>> > > 6.4M2. I
>> > > > > have
>> > > > > > > done a lot of refactoring on the LESS module (with a better cache
>> > > > > system
>> > > > > > > among other things) that I don't want to commit in a release
>> > > candidate.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > > > --
>> > > > > > > Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected])
>> > > > > > > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
>> > > > > > > Committer on the XWiki.org project
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected])
>> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
>> > Committer on the XWiki.org project
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >
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