On 3 Jul 2015 at 11:22:52, Jean SIMARD ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> See below. > > On 03/07/2015 09:56, [email protected] wrote: > > Hi Jean, > > > > See below > > > > On 2 Jul 2015 at 15:43:56, Jean SIMARD > > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > > > >> This is an interesting example. Let's get back a few seconds on the > >> first mail of this thread. The topic was about how to integrate the > >> nested concept into LT. If I paraphrase what I understand: how to > >> display the complete path to a document in a LT (list of all spaces from > >> ROOT to the document). But in this example (LT of extensions), the path > >> is not an interesting information. I don't really care where this page > >> is stored into the wiki (and I guess, you don't too, right?). What's > >> important is the name of the extension, the category and a few other > >> information. > >> > >> So maybe the real question is: do we care about displaying "path" of a > >> document in a LT? (and not, do we care to keep LT like I first said). > >> It's still a bit fuzzy in my head but this is how I think about that at > >> the moment: path is a technical information (therefore, useless for the > >> end-user), but title of the page, category, author, etc. are meaningful > >> information to the end-user. Does it make any sense to you? > >> > >> Trying to imagine some use cases where this path is useful to the > >> end-user (and not just technical), I got some (see below) but as you'll > >> see, I'm not sure it should be the way to implement them: > >> > >> 1) Using Task Manager Application with Project Management Application, > >> you could store all tasks of a project into a subspace (therefore the > >> name of the subspace could be the name of the project > >> 1.problem) Title of the project is probably already a field into the > >> Project Management AWM and what you really want in the LT is this title, > >> not the name of the sub-space (sub-space is only a technical solution to > >> store tasks without colliding between projects) > >> > >> 2) With Blog Application, you store articles in a hierarchy of > >> year/month/day. > >> 2.problem) Indeed, the date is useful information but here again, I > >> guess that you can already get the date from the document itself and > >> therefore, it's only a technical solution for storage which is not very > >> useful to the end-user. > >> > >> Can you think about a real use case where you need this path? (I guess > >> my brain is already to biased on the topic so help me!!!). > > > > You need this path for all use cases actually since this is the only way > > you can identify the document name or title you’re looking at. If you > > have a document with the “Team” title, how do you know what it means? Is > > this the HR Team, the Product Team, the Research Team, etc. The only way > > to identify a document is by looking at its path. > I don't understand. If these Team documents are different documents, > even if the document name (not title) is the same (only the path > differs), they will have different objects and/or have same objects > (with different values in properties) and/or different titles. It is > these information that you want to display in order to differentiate the > lines in your livetable. If these document are exactly the same, I > don't see the point to have clones of documents in a wiki (ok, it could > happen but I don't feel like we should support this use case). I think we might be talking about different things. I’m talking about the Index Main LT ATM. We don’t display objects in that table! And no objects is not what would differentiate those pages. It’s the content that would differentiate them in the majority of use cases. I’m really sorry but I fail to understand your points (been trying hard I assure you :)). And no, we’re not going to display all page contents in the LT just for the sake of identifying the documents! TBH I’m not sure anymore what’s your proposal about: - If your proposal is that LT can be replaced by Trees in general then I completely fail to see how that would be possible and you have shown a proposal that would work. - If your proposal is to replace only the Index Main LT by a Tree then I also fail to see what you would propose specifically. And note that we already have a Tree view in the Index page… - If your proposal is to say that the we don’t need to display the Path in the LT field that displays Document names, then I’m -1 because that’s the only way I know to fully identify the document (we could decide not to show it by default, to display it only on hover, etc but it has to be possible and easy for the user to see it). Thanks -Vincent > > Otherwise you’re forced to have unique names and this is not something > > we wish to have. > > > > Thanks > > -Vincent > > > >> On 02/07/2015 14:08, [email protected] wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > On 2 Jul 2015 at 13:49:01, Jean SIMARD > >> > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> > > >> >> As an end-user, I mainly used LT to *find* elements (usually a > > document) > >> >> and therefore, as a developer, I always used LT to provide a tool for > >> >> end-users to access elements. In order for them to find these elements, > >> >> either you display the data and then the end-user try to find what he's > >> >> looking for (the way LT works today) or you provide a search engine > >> >> (these filters we talked about). > >> > > >> > So for example how would you imagine http://extensions.xwiki.org ? > >> > > >> > Right now it has a LT that can be used both for navigating to extensions > >> > and for searching. If you need searching in the content then you use the > >> > search page. > >> > > >> > I find that quite convenient. > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > -Vincent > >> > > >> >> What do you think? LT is more a *find* tool or a *display* tool? > >> >> > >> >> On 02/07/2015 11:41, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On 2 Jul 2015 at 11:37:49, Jean SIMARD > >> >> > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Filters seems a good idea. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> For example, I'm pretty sure I've almost never used this livetable > >> >> >> without typing something into the search fields of one of the > > columns. > >> >> >> It means that first I'm filtering, and then I'm browsing. Therefore, > >> >> >> filtering the tree view first and then browse as a tree would be > > pretty > >> >> >> in line with this workflow. It indeed means that you don't > > display data > >> >> >> (author and date mainly) but you filter on them. > >> >> > > >> >> > But the main point of LT in general is to display these data! :) > >> >> > > >> >> > Ok maybe you were talking about a tree *only* for this page, > > while I’m > >> >> > talking about LT in general for all use cases. > >> >> > > >> >> > If you don’t display them you loose the rationale and you loose the > >> >> > ability to decide on what to filter too… > >> >> > > >> >> >> But of course, I'm aware that the work on trees may be more complex, > >> >> >> more difficult to do. So livetable could be considered as a viable > >> >> >> temporary solution (let's choose one of the solution that > > doesn't imply > >> >> >> a lot of work in this case ^^). > >> >> > > >> >> > I don’t see it as temporary, at least not till someone proposes > >> >> > something better :) > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks > >> >> > -Vincent > >> >> > > >> >> >> On 02/07/2015 11:17, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On 2 Jul 2015 at 11:06:42, Jean SIMARD > >> >> >> > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Nice work. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> However, something stroke me when reading that, why do we > > still want > >> >> >> >> livetable with nested? The tree seems the best way to represent > >> >> >> >> hierarchical structure of documents (as you say in sol4) so > > I'm not > >> >> > sure > >> >> >> >> to understand the real reason to try to keep a livetable and not > >> >> >> >> completely drop it and focus on tree view. OK, that is my > > opinion. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > That’s an interesting idea but how do you present data (the other > >> >> >> > columns) in a tree view, with filters? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Thanks > >> >> >> > -Vincent > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Now, to talk about your proposition, I guess sol2 or sol3 are > >> > fine (I > >> >> >> >> would go more for sol3). > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> For another solution, maybe you could mixin sol3 with a bit > > of sol1. > >> >> >> >> Let me explain. Use Sol3 but instead of displaying only parent, > >> > display > >> >> >> >> the minify breadcrumb. And fall back to "only parent" on mobile > >> > with a > >> >> >> >> small icon next to it to display the complete path in a popup or > >> >> >> >> something similar (or use this icon on every device and > > forget about > >> >> >> >> minify breadcrumb). Don't know if it makes sense. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Hope this helps. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On 02/07/2015 00:04, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote: > >> >> >> >> > Hi, > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > I've added some ideas on how to display 'Space' column in the > >> >> >> > AllDocs page: > >> >> >> >> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/NestedLivetable > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Let me know what you think and if there are other ideas. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Thanks, > >> >> >> >> > Caty > > > > -- > Jean Simard _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
