I don't know the amount of work needed, but it would be interesting to be able to support multiple preprocessors. Flamingo could remain on BS3+Less, but we could create a new skin on BS4. Regarding Sass, this is personal, but I'd prefer to jump directly to PostCSS, than to go through a Sass skin version.
Thanks, Caty On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 1:15 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Denis, > > On 18 Sep 2015 at 12:11:12, Denis Gervalle ([email protected](mailto: > [email protected])) wrote: > > > Hi Guillaume, > > > > I would be in favor to add SASS and not replace Less with SASS if > possible. > > Since the next one PostCSS is based on standard CSS, we would have > multiple > > possibilities PostCSS, LESS+PostCSS or SASS+PostCSS. > > Basically it means supporting one extended CSS language processor > followed > > by one or more standard CSS processors. > > > > Do you think that you could make your code generic enough to support both > > SASS and LESS, and be prepare to append PostCSS to the overall process ? > > Having this flexibility will allow backward compatibility and be open to > > the future. > > I am not sure waiting is the way to go, we basically need more > flexibility. > > If you wait for something stable you risk to wait for ever. > > If you’re referring to my comment then you misread me :) > > I’ve never said to wait for something stable… I’ve said to wait for people > to provide converters between processors and specifically to make Bootstrap > work with more than just SASS. > > But overall you’re saying exactly what I was thinking (support several > options) which is good since it means we agree :) > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > Thanks, > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:01 PM, [email protected] > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Guillaume, > > > > > > On 17 Sep 2015 at 18:59:22, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ( > > > [email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > > > > > > > Hello everyone. > > > > > > > > The front-end world is evolving really fast, and it's very hard to > pick > > > the > > > > good JavaScript framework, the good CSS preprocessor, or the good CSS > > > > toolkit. It's so unpredictable that it has inspired a comic strip: > > > > > > > > http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2015/09/16/how-to-choose-the-right-javascript-framework/ > > > > :) > > > > > > > > Last year, we have chosen to use Bootstrap for our new Flamingo Skin. > > > > Quickly, I have discovered that we had to integrate a CSS > preprocessor to > > > > be able to customize it [1]. The natural choice was Less, since > Bootstrap > > > > and of lot themes of the web were using it. > > > > > > > > Now, the situation have changed. Bootstrap 4.0 will be released soon > [2]. > > > > It have been entirely rewritten and some retro-incompatibilities have > > > been > > > > made. But the most breaking change is that they don't use Less > anymore, > > > but > > > > Sass. > > > > > > > > By the past, they use a less-to-sass converter so they were able to > > > propose > > > > both versions of the framework. But now, I doubt the opposite > converter > > > > could be possible since Sass have more features than Less. > > > > > > > > Worse, it seems that Sass is becoming more popular than Less [3]. > > > > > > > > Note: the current Bootstrap version, 3.x, will be maintained during > one > > > > year, so we have this time to adapt. > > > > > > > > If we want to upgrade to Bootstrap 4, we will need to integrate the > Sass > > > > preprocessor. Fortunately, we can re-use a lot of the work that I've > done > > > > for Less (the cache mechanism, etc...) that I can modify to be more > > > > generic. I don't have estimated the time it would take yet. > > > > > > > > If we want to upgrade Flamingo to Bootstrap 4, it will create some > css > > > > breakage (and the ability to use LESS in SSX will be loose). And we > will > > > > have to convert our Less code to Sass. > > > > > > > > We could also decide to keep Bootstrap 3.x in Flamingo and use > Bootstrap > > > 4 > > > > for our next skin. > > > > > > Why couldn’t we use LESS in SSX since in the end it generates CSS? > > > > > > Note that even SASS may not last very long (see this fun tweet: > > > https://twitter.com/mdo/status/591364406816079873?lang=en). > > > > > > For example there’s postCSS now (and lots of others): > > > * https://twitter.com/jeremychone/status/636570198510735360 > > > * https://github.com/postcss/postcss > > > * "PostCSS can do the same work as preprocessors like Sass, Less, and > > > Stylus. But PostCSS is modular, 3-30 times faster, and much more > powerful." > > > * Some slides: http://ai.github.io/about-postcss/en/ > > > > > > Our only real solution would be to be able to have XWiki work with > several > > > but I don’t know how hard it is to convert the bootstrap CSS files. > > > > > > See for example https://github.com/OEvgeny/bootstrap-postcss > > > > > > Since BS3 is pretty often used, I’m pretty sure people will develop > > > converters from LESS to SASS or others. > > > > > > So I think it’s important that we wait a bit :) We should research the > > > topic though. > > > > > > Thanks > > > -Vincent > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > [1]: > > > > > > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/ColorThemeforFlamingo#HImplementationusingLESSattheruntime28LESScompilercalledAFTERvelocityengine29 > > > > [2]: Bootstrap 4 announcement: > > > > http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2015/08/19/bootstrap-4-alpha/ > > > > [3]: The State of Front-End Tooling – 2015: > > > > http://ashleynolan.co.uk/blog/frontend-tooling-survey-2015-results > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
