Also remember that we didn't pick Sass because of some overlapping with Velocity syntax.
Thanks, Caty On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote: > I don't know the amount of work needed, but it would be interesting to be > able to support multiple preprocessors. Flamingo could remain on BS3+Less, > but we could create a new skin on BS4. > Regarding Sass, this is personal, but I'd prefer to jump directly to > PostCSS, than to go through a Sass skin version. > > Thanks, > Caty > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 1:15 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi Denis, >> >> On 18 Sep 2015 at 12:11:12, Denis Gervalle ([email protected](mailto: >> [email protected])) wrote: >> >> > Hi Guillaume, >> > >> > I would be in favor to add SASS and not replace Less with SASS if >> possible. >> > Since the next one PostCSS is based on standard CSS, we would have >> multiple >> > possibilities PostCSS, LESS+PostCSS or SASS+PostCSS. >> > Basically it means supporting one extended CSS language processor >> followed >> > by one or more standard CSS processors. >> > >> > Do you think that you could make your code generic enough to support >> both >> > SASS and LESS, and be prepare to append PostCSS to the overall process ? >> > Having this flexibility will allow backward compatibility and be open to >> > the future. >> > I am not sure waiting is the way to go, we basically need more >> flexibility. >> > If you wait for something stable you risk to wait for ever. >> >> If you’re referring to my comment then you misread me :) >> >> I’ve never said to wait for something stable… I’ve said to wait for >> people to provide converters between processors and specifically to make >> Bootstrap work with more than just SASS. >> >> But overall you’re saying exactly what I was thinking (support several >> options) which is good since it means we agree :) >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >> > Thanks, >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:01 PM, [email protected] >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Guillaume, >> > > >> > > On 17 Sep 2015 at 18:59:22, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ( >> > > [email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hello everyone. >> > > > >> > > > The front-end world is evolving really fast, and it's very hard to >> pick >> > > the >> > > > good JavaScript framework, the good CSS preprocessor, or the good >> CSS >> > > > toolkit. It's so unpredictable that it has inspired a comic strip: >> > > > >> > > >> http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2015/09/16/how-to-choose-the-right-javascript-framework/ >> > > > :) >> > > > >> > > > Last year, we have chosen to use Bootstrap for our new Flamingo >> Skin. >> > > > Quickly, I have discovered that we had to integrate a CSS >> preprocessor to >> > > > be able to customize it [1]. The natural choice was Less, since >> Bootstrap >> > > > and of lot themes of the web were using it. >> > > > >> > > > Now, the situation have changed. Bootstrap 4.0 will be released >> soon [2]. >> > > > It have been entirely rewritten and some retro-incompatibilities >> have >> > > been >> > > > made. But the most breaking change is that they don't use Less >> anymore, >> > > but >> > > > Sass. >> > > > >> > > > By the past, they use a less-to-sass converter so they were able to >> > > propose >> > > > both versions of the framework. But now, I doubt the opposite >> converter >> > > > could be possible since Sass have more features than Less. >> > > > >> > > > Worse, it seems that Sass is becoming more popular than Less [3]. >> > > > >> > > > Note: the current Bootstrap version, 3.x, will be maintained during >> one >> > > > year, so we have this time to adapt. >> > > > >> > > > If we want to upgrade to Bootstrap 4, we will need to integrate the >> Sass >> > > > preprocessor. Fortunately, we can re-use a lot of the work that >> I've done >> > > > for Less (the cache mechanism, etc...) that I can modify to be more >> > > > generic. I don't have estimated the time it would take yet. >> > > > >> > > > If we want to upgrade Flamingo to Bootstrap 4, it will create some >> css >> > > > breakage (and the ability to use LESS in SSX will be loose). And we >> will >> > > > have to convert our Less code to Sass. >> > > > >> > > > We could also decide to keep Bootstrap 3.x in Flamingo and use >> Bootstrap >> > > 4 >> > > > for our next skin. >> > > >> > > Why couldn’t we use LESS in SSX since in the end it generates CSS? >> > > >> > > Note that even SASS may not last very long (see this fun tweet: >> > > https://twitter.com/mdo/status/591364406816079873?lang=en). >> > > >> > > For example there’s postCSS now (and lots of others): >> > > * https://twitter.com/jeremychone/status/636570198510735360 >> > > * https://github.com/postcss/postcss >> > > * "PostCSS can do the same work as preprocessors like Sass, Less, and >> > > Stylus. But PostCSS is modular, 3-30 times faster, and much more >> powerful." >> > > * Some slides: http://ai.github.io/about-postcss/en/ >> > > >> > > Our only real solution would be to be able to have XWiki work with >> several >> > > but I don’t know how hard it is to convert the bootstrap CSS files. >> > > >> > > See for example https://github.com/OEvgeny/bootstrap-postcss >> > > >> > > Since BS3 is pretty often used, I’m pretty sure people will develop >> > > converters from LESS to SASS or others. >> > > >> > > So I think it’s important that we wait a bit :) We should research the >> > > topic though. >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > -Vincent >> > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > >> > > > [1]: >> > > > >> > > >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/ColorThemeforFlamingo#HImplementationusingLESSattheruntime28LESScompilercalledAFTERvelocityengine29 >> > > > [2]: Bootstrap 4 announcement: >> > > > http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2015/08/19/bootstrap-4-alpha/ >> > > > [3]: The State of Front-End Tooling – 2015: >> > > > http://ashleynolan.co.uk/blog/frontend-tooling-survey-2015-results >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
