On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 06 Jul 2016, at 11:15, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 06 Jul 2016, at 10:54, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 06 Jul 2016, at 10:31, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> IMO ideally we should have <current wiki> -> <main wiki> for each >>>>>> configuration property, not all or nothing. Exactly like standard >>>>>> XWikiPreference based configuration properties. >>>>> >>>>> This is what we have, it’s already per-property. >>>>> >>>>>> As for the 1 vs 2 I really see no reason to forbid overwriting part of >>>>>> the configuration in his own wiki for use cases like myxwiki.org for >>>>>> example. >>>>> >>>>> The question is: Do we really want local admins on myxwiki.org to be able >>>>> to use their own SMTP servers? I guess with ours we could configure some >>>>> anti-spamming techniques to prevent myxwiki users from spamming people. >>>>> At least we would have the mail logs in our SMTP server when some third >>>>> party decides to blacklist us. >>>> >>>> 1) The SMTP server is not the only thing you can setup there (for >>>> example it's interesting to change the default from mail address for >>>> you wiki). But you might still want to use your own SMTP server for >>>> you wiki (becauseou have a SMTP server which provide some analysis of >>>> the mails, storage, etc.). >>> >>> So we could easily decide to use the local wiki only for some properties if >>> we want. >>> >>>> 2) I don't see the relationship with spam. The only thing really >>>> important for spam is who is allowed to send mail, not really who is >>>> allowed to choose the SMTP server. Allowing someone to configure his >>>> own SMTP server actually only decrease the load on the main SMTP >>>> server and the chance of it being used for spam in case it's >>>> overwritten. >>> >>> I explained the relationship in the previous mail. In short: controlling >>> the SMTP server allows you take some actions/monitor mails. >> >> They don't need XWiki to send mail trough their own SMTP server. > > I think they do because the mail sender api requires PR and on a farm you > don’t get it. And if they want to use java mail they need groovy which also > requires PR. > > Do you see a way for them to send mail without PR?
I don't think you understood what I mean. XWiki is not the only software out there that allows sending mails. If you have your own SMTP server then you can just use any mail client to send mails trough it, not need to request a myxwiki.org wiki for that. > >> And >> again what would be blacklisted is this other SMTP server so we don't >> care. > > Indeed, good point. I was thinking about myxwiki.org being blacklisted but > you’re right, there’s no reason for myxwiki.org to be blacklisted; it’s not > the one sending the mail. > > So I’m still in favor of option 2. Anyone strongly in favor of option 1? I’d > like to start modifying the code soon so please reply asap. > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>> PS: I’m playing the devil’s advocate (trying to represent Denis ;)) because >>> I’m also preferring option 2. >>> >>>> Thanks >>>>> -Vincent >>>>> >>>>>> But I don't mind too much getting rid of the two [Backward >>>>>> compatibility] steps. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:56 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi devs, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13546 ("Error in the >>>>>>> log when sending a mail through the Mail API”). One way to fix it would >>>>>>> to always look for the Mail.Config page in the main wiki instead of in >>>>>>> the current wiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually the current algorithm is the following when looking up a mail >>>>>>> configuration property: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * <ul> >>>>>>> * <li>Look in Mail.MailConfig in the current wiki</li> >>>>>>> * <li>[Backward compatibility] Look in (current >>>>>>> space).XWikiPreferences in the current wiki</li> >>>>>>> * <li>[Backward compatibility] Look in XWiki.XWikiPreferences in the >>>>>>> current wiki</li> >>>>>>> * <li>Look in the xwiki properties file</li> >>>>>>> * </ul> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We also need to implement http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12435 >>>>>>> (“Use the Main Wiki Mail Configuration if not overridden at the subwiki >>>>>>> level”): >>>>>>> “ >>>>>>> Right now when sending a mail in a subwiki, the configuration is taken >>>>>>> from that subwiki's Mail.MailConfig document. >>>>>>> In a non-farm use case, it's a pain to have to configure SMTP settings >>>>>>> for each subwiki. >>>>>>> It would be better to look into the main wiki's mail configuration when >>>>>>> there's no overridden config at the subwiki's level. >>>>>>> " >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So I can see 2 options. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Option 1: Drop support for looking for configuration in subwikis >>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Rationale: there are few use cases that require overriding the mail >>>>>>> config in a subwiki >>>>>>> * Potential issue: if we stop looking for *.XWikiPreferences or for >>>>>>> <current wiki>:Mail.Config then we won’t migrate configurations but >>>>>>> always use the config from the main wiki. So backward compat is >>>>>>> theoretically broken. >>>>>>> * But it’s likely that the config in subwikis is the same as the config >>>>>>> from the main wiki anyway. It’s also likely that if a subwikis smtp >>>>>>> server is configured, then the main wiki is also configured. So it >>>>>>> could be acceptable with a message in the Release Notes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Option 2: Continue supporting overriding in subwikis >>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Stop bundling Mail.Config for subwikis and modify the config >>>>>>> algorithm to be: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * <ul> >>>>>>> * <li>Look in Mail.MailConfig in the current wiki</li> >>>>>>> * <li>[Backward compatibility] Look in (current >>>>>>> space).XWikiPreferences in the current wiki</li> >>>>>>> * <li>[Backward compatibility] Look in XWiki.XWikiPreferences in the >>>>>>> current wiki</li> >>>>>>> * <li>Look in Mail.MailConfig in the main wiki</li> >>>>>>> * <li>Look in the xwiki properties file</li> >>>>>>> * </ul> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’ve discussed it quickly with Denis who prefers option 1 since he even >>>>>>> sees the ability to configure the smtp server at the wiki level a >>>>>>> potential issue (bypassing the farm admin). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Personally I’m hesitating and I’d hate to remove the local override and >>>>>>> then find some use cases where we need it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> -Vincent > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs -- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
