The primary problem is the H2S. The Sulfur in diesel fuel is not H2S. The
sulfur in diesel fuel actually acts as a lubricant and prolongs the life of
diesel
engines. The H2S will cut the life a normal engine by 60- 75%. You can change
to a higher heat thermostat say 210F and boil the acid that forms out
but the metal sulfides that form are highly abrasive to the entire engine. The
real problem is the effect the H2S has on any parts that contain copper,
like bearings ,it just eats them up. Several companies make CHP gen sets
designed to burn "sour" well head gas.
I heard of several places that use engines out of wrecked cars and just through
them away when they fail. Our personal experience is was not good.
We seldom got more than 6,OOO hours before standard automotive diesels or gas
engines failed. What run time are your units able to reach?
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: Anand Karve
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion of Honey Waste
Dear Brent,
In India, biogas is used as cooking fuel and it is always used as it is. We
have two biogas plants at our training centre at Phaltan, Maharashtra State,
India. We use food waste and kitchen waste from our hostel as the feedstock.
The gas from one of the plants is used for cooking and that from the other is
used for operating an internal combustion engine for generating electricity.
The engine is started on petrol and then switched over to operate with biogas
alone. We do not purify the gas, neither for the cooking nor for running the
internal combustion engine. The H2S has so far corroded neither our cookstove
nor our engine. I consulted a U.S.American Professor about the use of biogas in
an internal combustion engine. He comes to my city (Pune, India), as a
consultant to an automobile manufacturer. He said that the so called oxygen
that the engine draws in contains 80% nitrogen. Biogas has about 40% CO2, which
does not interfere with the functioning of the engine. The moisture in the
biogas also does not harm the engine, as the external air being drawn into the
engine also contains moisture, especially when it is raining. As to the H2S, he
said that the whole world was using diesel with a high sulphur content until
about 20 years ago. It never harmed the engine. We stopped using it to reduce
atmospheric pollution. After seeing our example, there are now several farmers,
who use biogas in their diesel engines (80% biogas and 20% diesel) for pumping
water and for generating electricity.. Biogas has a lower calorific value than
petrol and diesel. We overcome this problem by increasing the flow rate of
biogas.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:58 AM, bingham <bing...@zekes.com> wrote:
Dear Anand,
Are you saying you have an AD system that produces Biogas which does not
require the expenditure of any energy?
Alcohol can be burned in diesel and gas engines at 100 proof replacing
$3.00++ automotive fuel. I do not understand
your point about "use the fuel where it is generated" but one of alcohol's
good points is it can be transported
inexpensively or used "where it is generated". With the advent of vacuum
operated alcohol distillation systems
direct sun light is all the external heat that is needed to produce
alcohol at 190 proof.
We do not know if the honey facility can even use biogas "as it is", or
has a need for it. Our natural gas boilers cannot use raw biogas
"as it is", we must scrub out all H2S to prevent damaging another boiler
and or most of the CO2 to avoid spending
thousands to modify the burners to burn both natural gas and biogas. I do
not know where or how you use biogas
"as it is" we tried it in unit heaters in our livestock buildings and
destroyed them in a year.
The fact is in the last 45 years, we have found almost no application for
the long term use of biogas ,that H2S is not a factor.
Cooking stoves, lighting, boilers, unite heaters, water heaters, inferred
heaters all experienced significantly shorter lives from using
biogas "as it is". Some of the failures were out right dangerous.
Anand, I believe you are being misleading to the point of being untruthful.
This could result in someone being hurt or killed,
who might take what you said "Biogas can be burned as it is" as fact and
use it with out precautions.
Standard residential plumbing and appliances contain metals that do not
stand up under long term exposure to H2S. Especially in high heat high
humidity conditions. Steel plumbing is used in most places that were setup
to use natural gas or propane. To suggest you can just pump
biogas"as it is" in place of other fuels is just wrong on many levels. We
are strong proponents of AD but the "Bad Press" the list is
currently discussing could be warranted in some instances. AD is not the
"highest and best" technology for all applications.
Highest and best use principles require the use of an energy audit and some
study to determine which system is best suited to each situation. My father,
grand father
and my uncles refused to believe that the effluent from the AD system was
better for the crops than the runoff from the livestock buildings. It was only
after the areas
around the farms began to build up with new homes and the complaints of
smell threatened to shut us down that they allowed me to build our first AD
system. They then
could see an increase in crop yields in later years, (and the smell went
away). I know corn farmers that use corn in there pellet stoves as fuel to
heat there house because fuel pellets cost more to buy than they were paid for
their corn.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: Anand Karve
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion of Honey Waste
Dear Brent,
for alcohol to be useful as fuel, it has to be distilled, which again
requires expenditure of energy. Biogas can be burned as it is. So, if you want
to use the fuel where it is generated, biogas is more advantageous than alcohol.
Yours
A.D.Karve
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
*Please change my email address in your records to: adka...@gmail.com *
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
digest...@bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
