Gday (bonjour),
I am pleased to say that my schoolboy French allowed me to basically understand that you are asking about the need for oxygen and Buswells equation, but I am not going to try and respond in French (except via Alta Vista translations, that did help me understand your query a bit better). I am an agricultural engineer so my chemistry is limited, but it must be only dissolved oxygen that restricts the anaerobes as there is oxygen in the water that is necessary for digestion to occur (I had not thought of this till you asked the question!). I suggest that the hydrolysis stage uses oxygen ions (so no free oxygen can inhibit the anaerobes) and the reason that Buswell overestimates methane production is that not all the substrate can be used by micro-organisms as they begin to starve to death as their food supply depletes. I hope this helps, HOOROO (au revoir) Je suis heureux de dire que mon Français d'écolier m'a permis de comprendre fondamentalement que vous vous enquérez du besoin d'oxygène et d'équation de Buswell, mais je ne vais pas essayer et répondre en français (excepté par l'intermédiaire des traductions d'Alta Vista, qui m'ont aidé à comprendre votre question un peu mieux). Je suis un ingénieur agricole ainsi ma chimie est limitée, mais ce doit être seulement un oxygène dissous qui limite les anaérobies car il y a de l'oxygène dans l'eau qui est nécessaire pour que la digestion se produise (je n'avais pas pensé à ceci jusqu'à ce que vous ayez posé la question !). Je propose que l'étape d'hydrolyse emploie des ions de l'oxygène (ainsi aucun oxygène libre ne peut empêcher les anaérobies) et la raison pour laquelle la production de méthane de sur-estimations de Buswell est que non tout le substrat peut être employé par des micro-organismes pendant qu'elles commencent meurent de faim à la mort pendant que leurs approvisionnements alimentaires épuisent. Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61 8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386 <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected] <http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris CRICOS Provider Number 00123M This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of elamin afilal Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 6:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Digestion] le taux de conversion en methane bonjour, sachant que la biomethanisation est une succession d'étapes, et donc tous dépend de la première? est ce que lors des étapes suivantes, la première est totalement arrêté? la première étape d'hydrolyse à besoin d'O2, et la dernière étape ne tolère pas l'O2, donc une fois l'O2 est épuisé, les autres phases démarrent? c'est ça l'explication pourquoi la formule de BUSWEL donne toujours un taux de conversion théorique plus élevé que l'expérience? est ce que vous avez une autre explication ? Merci --------------------------------------------------- Pr.AFILAL Mohamed Elamin Université Mohamed Premier Laboratoire de Biologie des Plantes et Micro-organismes B.P: 524, 60 000 Oujda MAROC Mobile : 212-661 087309 Tel fix: 212-536.511354 Fax: 212-536510432 [email protected] _____ De : "[email protected]" <[email protected]> À : [email protected] Envoyé le : Jeu 31 mars 2011, 19h 00min 02s Objet : Digestion Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 Send Digestion mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergyli sts.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..." Today's Topics: 1. density of methane and bottling (Murali Krishna) 2. Re: density of methane and bottling (Paul Harris) 3. Re: density of methane and bottling (Murali Krishna) 4. Re: flame lifting (Deepak D. G.) 5. biogas stove flame (Murali Krishna) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:46:35 +0530 From: Murali Krishna <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [Digestion] density of methane and bottling Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, I shall thank you to clarify the follwoing: The density of methane is shown as 0.67, 0.72 and 1.2 on the web. Presuming that 1000 cubic meter of methane at 70% in biogas, purified upto 95% and then compressed what will be the output of gas in kgs. It is likely to be compressed at three stages upto 180 bar pressure. Krishna -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.or g/attachments/20110331/79bc616b/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:52:14 +1030 From: "Paul Harris" <[email protected]> To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Digestion] density of methane and bottling Message-ID: <001b01cbef8d$81da84c0$858f8e40$@[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" G'day Krishna, I think the different figures are for different pressures and/or temperatures, as conventions vary. I have a value of 0.628 kg/m3 at 1.103 kPa and 20C, so 1000 m3 of biogas will become 737 cubic metres of 95% methane. Ignoring the CO2 will give 700 m3 of methane, weighing about 440 kg. This will be the mass whatever the pressure (unless you have a leak!). At 180 bar the volume will be approximately 4 cubic metres (at 20C). Hope this helps, HOOROO Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61 8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386 mailto:[email protected] http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris CRICOS Provider Number 00123M This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Murali Krishna Sent: Thursday, 31 March 2011 4:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Digestion] density of methane and bottling Hi, I shall thank you to clarify the follwoing: The density of methane is shown as 0.67, 0.72 and 1.2 on the web. Presuming that 1000 cubic meter of methane at 70% in biogas, purified upto 95% and then compressed what will be the output of gas in kgs. It is likely to be compressed at three stages upto 180 bar pressure. Krishna -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.or g/attachments/20110331/b2a4432b/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:41:40 +0530 From: Murali Krishna <[email protected]> To: [email protected], For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Digestion] density of methane and bottling Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Good day Paul, Thank you for your prompt reply. How have you arrived at 440 kg weight from 700 m3 of methane? Will you please elaborate? Regards, Krishna On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Paul Harris <[email protected]>wrote: > G?day Krishna, > > > > I think the different figures are for different pressures and/or > temperatures, as conventions vary. I have a value of 0.628 kg/m3 at 1.103 > kPa and 20C, so 1000 m3 of biogas will become 737 cubic metres of 95% > methane. Ignoring the CO2 will give 700 m3 of methane, weighing about 440 > kg. This will be the mass whatever the pressure (unless you have a leak!). > At 180 bar the volume will be approximately 4 cubic metres (at 20C). > > > > Hope this helps, > > HOOROO > > > > Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, > The University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph > : +61 8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386 > mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris > > > > CRICOS Provider Number 00123M > > This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains > information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the > intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately > delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone > other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No > representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of > viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the > recipient. > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Murali Krishna > *Sent:* Thursday, 31 March 2011 4:47 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [Digestion] density of methane and bottling > > > > Hi, > > I shall thank you to clarify the follwoing: > > The density of methane is shown as 0.67, 0.72 and 1.2 on the web. > Presuming that 1000 cubic meter of methane at 70% in biogas, purified upto > 95% and then compressed what will be the output of gas in kgs. It is likely > to be compressed at three stages upto 180 bar pressure. > > Krishna > > _______________________________________________ > Digestion mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergyli sts.org > > for more information about digestion, see > Beginner's Guide to Biogas > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.or g/attachments/20110331/200949ac/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 23:31:27 +0800 From: "Deepak D. G." <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Digestion] flame lifting Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Dear listeners, I would like to consult on a issue of flame lifting. I have installed 8 floating digesters and all are working well and the gas production is also very good. The only issue I have right now is the flame lifting issue, specially with the latest installation. The latest installation, in a village in Bali, has a capacity of 1000 liter gas tank and the distance between the structure and the stove is about 20 meters. I used a combination of a plastic tube and pvc of equal size and that is 1/2". I can not get the flame burned immediately above the surface of the burner but it is lifting. I have tried the same stove at home in which the distance between the biogas and the stove is about 8 meters and the flame is stable and not lifting. Can anybody suggest solutions to this issue? thanks Rgds, Deepak ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:51:59 +0530 From: Murali Krishna <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [Digestion] biogas stove flame Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Deepak, Go through the following link. You will get a fair idea of gas stoves. * http://www.kingdombio.com/BiogasBurner1.pdf* Hope this helps you. Krishna -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.or g/attachments/20110331/50b81116/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Digestion mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergyli sts.org for more information about digestion, see Beginner's Guide to Biogas http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/ End of Digestion Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 ****************************************
_______________________________________________ Digestion mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org for more information about digestion, see Beginner's Guide to Biogas http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
