On Saturday, 27 January 2018 at 17:55:06 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
On 1/26/18 5:50 PM, Dgame wrote:
[...]
> My impression so far is that most of the D users love to
> program in a tiny editor without the features which modern
> IDE's gives you. That's impressive, but outdated and even a
> bit silly if the project is bigger. In any company I've
> been so far we've used IDE's, because their feature-set and
> tools take so much work away from you - I don't want to miss
> them anymore. Nowadays, the majority of programmers who are
> willing to try new/others programming languages, think so
> too. I'm somewhat sure that this unneccessary hurdle is one
> of D's biggest mistakes.
[...]
Not to negate the fact that we *do* need to improve IDE
support, but the claim that IDEs are "required" for large
projects is false, and so is the claim that non-IDE editors are
"tiny". At my day job, I work with a very large codebase
(50,000+ source files, and yes, I mean 50 *thousand*, not
hundred), and vim has more than sufficed for the past 10 years.
And vim does a *lot* more than what some people tend to falsely
believe that it's "just" another "tiny" text editor on the
order of NotePad.
This doesn't excuse our poor IDE support, of course, we do need
to improve our IDE support. But it's tiresome to keep reading
these unfounded claims that IDE's are somehow inherently
superior to powerful editors like vim, which is not necessarily
the case.
T
It's nice that this works for you, but I strongly believe that
most of the programmers who are willing to try something new are
younger and I also think that most of them don't use VIM/Emacs on
a daily basis. It's impressive that you can do it and I'm sure it
works for you pretty well, but I doubt that younger programmers
do the same - the hurdle to work with those tools is way to high
at the start. One of our programmers use VIM too, but on a
regular basis he has problems like finding/renaming
files/variables or optimize imports or code formatting. I bet you
can do that with the right tools and a lot of time as good as an
IDE can do it, but the IDE can do that out of the box without
consuming your time. It's like I said - if you mainly used
VIM/Emacs you think everything is fine and would not try an IDE -
but that's not what nowadays happens to new programmers. And to
make D appealing to them, D has to offer good IDE support or it
will remain as a hobby language with very few exceptions.
