On Friday, 18 May 2018 at 15:40:52 UTC, KingJoffrey wrote:
On Friday, 18 May 2018 at 14:32:33 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
[...]
This is simply unavoidable - and, that 'surprise' you mention,
is already there - it's not dependent on, or in any way
related, to any proposal that might result from this discussion.
The D 'private is really public in a module' concept, is here
to stay (sadly, but it's true).
[...]
C++ is a complex beast, as a result of both needing to
accomodate change (evolve), and not wanting to break backwards
compatability.
It's still *the* most powerful and flexible tool available for
programmers.
Beginner programmers would do well to keep that in mind.
A class is just an abstract type, a tool for those that think
it is useful in the solution for their problem domain.
In any case, this discussion is not about convincing you of the
value of classes - you should already know that if you are
programmer.
This discussion (at least my reason for being involved in it)
is about breaking this idiotic (in my opinion) concept that D
enforces on 'everyone' - i.e the one class per module, or
everything is public, and you have no say in it.
I don't necessarily object to the freedom the D module provides
(i.e to bypass your interfaces, even accidently). What I object
to is the 'i.e the one class per module, or everything is
public, and you have no say in it.'
A proposal that empowers the programmer to use the module for
more than just a container for single class, coupled with
static compile time verification - i.e you can't accidently
access your private(this) T as it would be a compile time
error, would be good for D (in my opinion), because those that
have enjoyed having this capability in other mainstream
langauges for literally decades!, won't be shut out from using
D.
It will attract more programmers, not less - and trust me, D
better get more programmers using it, cause 18 years on, and it
hasn't got that far, really.
To get more programmers, you might want to be more open to
accomodating their needs too.
Although I do wonder, sometimes, whether the aim if D is just
to be this cosy little langauge that not many use, except for
those that do.
Sometimes, I really need to put 2-3 or more different classes in
a module and I don't want them to share private members (friend
classes). The current solution is to create an individual module
for each class, but I don't like it when my class logic-strucrure
fits better in the same module. A better solution could be
private(this). I am sure that D really needs something like this.
I have been talking with my friend programmers for 4 hours and
they don't like the fact that D classes couldn't protect thier
members in the same module. So they stuck on java and c#..
