Looks like this kickstarter thing has discovered quite a few open wounds ...
Am 19.12.2013 19:26, schrieb Doc O'Leary:> In article <mailman.9608.1387390854.10748.discuss-gnus...@gnu.org>, > My experience with projects, paid and unpaid, is that crapping out > code is wasted effort unless the "words" have set people in the right > direction. My experience with open source is, whenever you come with more than a bugfix, you apparently present something like an embarrassment. The word apparently received by the already existing community is: "he doesn't like what we have and he wants to change things which work just fine for us". From the psychological standpoint that's even understandable and the solution I took so far is, to do a friendly fork. Communicate this fork, attach a website which shows cases where your fork is superior, bring it into a shape people can test it. After a few months they usually recognize sky isn't falling, but the new thing is a good one. Eventually help bringing it into the main distribution. Happens not always, sometimes forks happen to exist for a very long time. No problem either, with something like Git ( + git-svn) it's extremely easy to follow upstream as well as advancing with the fork. If you see lack for some specific field, open a web site, discuss the problems and how to solve them, link to your fork. 99% of all people find web pages by search engines today and engines pretty merciless rank your site higher than the original one if people search for stuff you offer to solve. Example: http://www.reprap.org/wiki/SimulAVR https://github.com/Traumflug/simulavr.git Am 19.12.2013 20:27, schrieb Doc O'Leary:> In article <mailman.9679.1387478362.10748.discuss-gnus...@gnu.org>, > Case in point is my root "rant" to this discussion that got dropped: > what *is* the current message of GNUstep? In the scenario above it's _you_ who defines the message, so this problem is solved, too. Am 19.12.2013 21:10, schrieb Gregory Casamento: > I must confess, however, that I don't fully understand the need to > run GNUstep apps on Mac since it is almost akin to trying to download > and use WINE on Windows. Actually, Wine people put _a_lot_ of efforts into running Wine on Windows. "Doesn't work on Windows" is a mandatory reason for patch rejection. AFAIK, they do this for evaluation, for comparison, for ease of development. Am 19.12.2013 22:17, schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: > So there is no overall direction. Matches my observation. Looks like GNUstep should split into sub-projects anyways. Uhm, didn't this happen already? Etoile and Darling are distinct, aren't they? Maybe it sounds disappointing to the elder of us, but the decade of big unified projects is over. These days everybody works in his own box. The last three years I've seen ten times more rewrites from scratch than big projects achieving noticeable goals. People don't even try to understand existing projects, instead they write their own code. Am 19.12.2013 22:34, schrieb Gregory Casamento: > Dr. Schaller >> The kickstarter can also be seen as the attempt of Gregory to >> become elected into that leadership role by user's votes. > > Really, is this what you think? Wow... What's wrong with this view? To all I can see this attempt was appreciated, already existing leadership or not. Am 19.12.2013 22:41, schrieb Ivan Vučica: > Linus happens to have the luxury of having hundreds or thousands of > people wanting really hard to get their work inside of Linux. He has > the luxury of being able to filter through the contributions and > STILL being able to advance the project forward. As you wrote correctly already, this is because a kernel can't be packaged as an add-on. Technical neccessity or not, if you want people to use your driver, you have to get it into the kernel. > Can a project leader come and order someone: "No, you will NOT work > on Core Data, we need good integration with Ruby!" He can't, but he can say: "this work won't go into the main repo.". Uhm, harsh example of mine, of course. And here enters packaging the game: if 80% of your users use packages, your word becomes weight. Using a package isn't mandatory, but it's ten times easier than compiling from scratch, so people strongly prefer packages. Not as much weight as Linus' words, but devinitely more than nothing. A bit contradictionary to what I wrote above? Perhaps. The intro scenario is good for really distinct stuff and also as a temporary solution to solve specific needs. Markus -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.reprap-diy.com/ http://www.jump-ing.de/ _______________________________________________ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
