Markus, On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:06 PM, Markus Hitter <m...@jump-ing.de> wrote:
> Looks like this kickstarter thing has discovered quite a few open wounds > ... > > > Am 19.12.2013 19:26, schrieb Doc O'Leary:> In article > <mailman.9608.1387390854.10748.discuss-gnus...@gnu.org>, > > My experience with projects, paid and unpaid, is that crapping out > > code is wasted effort unless the "words" have set people in the right > > direction. > > My experience with open source is, whenever you come with more than a > bugfix, you apparently present something like an embarrassment. The word > apparently received by the already existing community is: "he doesn't > like what we have and he wants to change things which work just fine for > us". > From the psychological standpoint that's even understandable and the > solution I took so far is, to do a friendly fork. Communicate this fork, > attach a website which shows cases where your fork is superior, bring it > into a shape people can test it. After a few months they usually > recognize sky isn't falling, but the new thing is a good one. Eventually > help bringing it into the main distribution. > > Happens not always, sometimes forks happen to exist for a very long > time. No problem either, with something like Git ( + git-svn) it's > extremely easy to follow upstream as well as advancing with the fork. > > If you see lack for some specific field, open a web site, discuss the > problems and how to solve them, link to your fork. 99% of all people > find web pages by search engines today and engines pretty merciless rank > your site higher than the original one if people search for stuff you > offer to solve. > > Friendly forks would be welcomed. I wish more people would do this. > Example: > http://www.reprap.org/wiki/SimulAVR > https://github.com/Traumflug/simulavr.git > > > Am 19.12.2013 20:27, schrieb Doc O'Leary:> In article > <mailman.9679.1387478362.10748.discuss-gnus...@gnu.org>, > > Case in point is my root "rant" to this discussion that got dropped: > > what *is* the current message of GNUstep? > > In the scenario above it's _you_ who defines the message, so this > problem is solved, too. > Indeed. > Am 19.12.2013 21:10, schrieb Gregory Casamento: > > I must confess, however, that I don't fully understand the need to > > run GNUstep apps on Mac since it is almost akin to trying to download > > and use WINE on Windows. > > Actually, Wine people put _a_lot_ of efforts into running Wine on > Windows. "Doesn't work on Windows" is a mandatory reason for patch > rejection. AFAIK, they do this for evaluation, for comparison, for ease > of development. > Interesting, I didn't know this. Am 19.12.2013 22:17, schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: > > So there is no overall direction. > > Matches my observation. Looks like GNUstep should split into > sub-projects anyways. Uhm, didn't this happen already? Etoile and > Darling are distinct, aren't they? > > Maybe it sounds disappointing to the elder of us, but the decade of big > unified projects is over. These days everybody works in his own box. The > last three years I've seen ten times more rewrites from scratch than big > projects achieving noticeable goals. People don't even try to understand > existing projects, instead they write their own code. > Not at all. GNUstep is a very large, all inclusive project. There is room for it to be broken up into many different projects. > Am 19.12.2013 22:34, schrieb Gregory Casamento: > > Dr. Schaller > >> The kickstarter can also be seen as the attempt of Gregory to > >> become elected into that leadership role by user's votes. > > > > Really, is this what you think? Wow... > > What's wrong with this view? To all I can see this attempt was > appreciated, already existing leadership or not. > Well, people can espouse views of my motivations regarding why I did it all they like, that doesn't make their views correct. I did it from the standpoint that I was already lead and I wanted to do something which would help jumpstart development and get the word out... and for no other reason. The view that I did it to get a leadership role which I already have is patently incorrect. That's what's wrong with the view. People are, however, free to have any views they like. Like the old saying goes. ;) > Am 19.12.2013 22:41, schrieb Ivan Vučica: > > Linus happens to have the luxury of having hundreds or thousands of > > people wanting really hard to get their work inside of Linux. He has > > the luxury of being able to filter through the contributions and > > STILL being able to advance the project forward. > > As you wrote correctly already, this is because a kernel can't be > packaged as an add-on. Technical neccessity or not, if you want people > to use your driver, you have to get it into the kernel. > > > Can a project leader come and order someone: "No, you will NOT work > > on Core Data, we need good integration with Ruby!" > > He can't, but he can say: "this work won't go into the main repo.". Uhm, > harsh example of mine, of course. > I can and have said that. > And here enters packaging the game: if 80% of your users use packages, > your word becomes weight. Using a package isn't mandatory, but it's ten > times easier than compiling from scratch, so people strongly prefer > packages. Not as much weight as Linus' words, but devinitely more than > nothing. > > GNUstep can't control how it's packaged. Debian and others do this on their own. It would be nice to do our own packages officially available in our own package repo. > A bit contradictionary to what I wrote above? Perhaps. The intro > scenario is good for really distinct stuff and also as a temporary > solution to solve specific needs. > > > Markus > > -- > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter > http://www.reprap-diy.com/ > http://www.jump-ing.de/ > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss-gnustep mailing list > Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep > GC -- Gregory Casamento Open Logic Corporation, Principal Consultant yahoo/skype: greg_casamento, aol: gjcasa (240)274-9630 (Cell) http://www.gnustep.org http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
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