On 18 November 2015 at 00:53, Riccardo Mottola <riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: > > It is widely used. The other statements I dissent about. > Debian has really questionable "ease of install" when it comes to firmware > and drivers, for example.
Mint > Ubuntu > Debian. You choose how Free you want, and you get the level of ease-of-use according to that. > Systemd is a pain you get Only if you care. Most people don't. My machine with 15.10 on started booting /dramatically/ faster after the version upgrade that installed systemd. I was impressed and like it. I don't give a damn about scripts/logging format/etc., just that it works. > and many other things I do need to "tailor" before > I have a usable system Yes, Debian is a bit like that. Which is why I use Ubuntu, which works out-of-the-box and to which I can add proprietary codec support with a single command. > debian and it is not so easy to update either if you > don't want to break things. This is the direct opposite of my experience, but I appreciate that others' experiences differ from mine. As I said, I've never once managed to get an install of FreeBSD to /both/ see the internet /and/ have a working GUI except via distros such as GhostBSD and PC-BSD. > On OpenBSD I just install the system major dependencies are a breeze and > work my way up to GNUstep without pain. But that is personal preference. Yes indeed. I do not mean to dismiss *BSD -- they're fine OSes if you have the skills to use them. If you don't, Linux is easier and Ubuntu is the easiest Linux in my extensive experience over the last 19 years. >> *That* is what should be the #1 priority to support well with GNUstep. > > We do support Debian and Ubuntu very well. I am beginning to think that you live in a different, parallel universe to me. "Support Debian/Ubuntu well" means: * add repo * install metapackage And you're done. N.B. Ubuntu does not include a compiler by default. Users having to build from source does *not* mean "supports well". I have not had to build components from source since the 1990s. > I have GNUstep on Raspbian > working quite fine. Good for you. > We are not directly responsible for the quality of packages supplied, so the > two things need to be separated. AFAICT the GNUstep project doesn't supply packages *at all*. There are Philippe's ones and that's all. However, the downstream distros do, so someone needs to find where they come from and get them updated -- or removed, as currently they give a very bad impression. > We also do work well on SuSE and those packages appear to be far more > complete. Stopped using it in 2004; not looked since except for review purposes. It's largely a corporate-only tool now, it seems to me. > During the Dublin meeting, both Debian and SuSE packages were discussed and > Ivan is working to get us better custom DEB packages. This doesn't mean > directly that "official" packages will benefit, we would need a DD for a > good sponsor for that. Good news. I talked to SUSE at LinuxCon Europe last month, and the company is very proud of its online automated package-factory tool, which supports the other leading distros as well as SUSE. I have contemplated seeing if I can make that build GNUstep from source, but I don't really know where to begin -- it's something I've not done this century, as I said. >> The answer to the problem "I can't install GNUstep on Ubuntu or >> Debian" is_not_ "install FreeBSD instead". It's not "install >> $ANY_OTHER_OS". > > > I just mentioned that there are other OS and that they are of high quality, > have better out-of-the-box GNUstep experience and that they are easy or even > easier to maintain. That's all. I strongly dispute the "easy or easier to maintain" part, but otherwise, sure, yes, that is great stuff and a good thing. But GNUstep needs to provide binaries for the industry-leading distro(s). Actually, it needed them a decade ago, but better late than never. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR) _______________________________________________ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep