I agree. It is better than to have Debian packaging than not to have it. I would not want to be disrespectful of those who like it in that form, or for anyone who took the time to make it happen. I appreciate that it is there.
It's not my cup of tea so I was merely pointing out other options for those who do not want to be stuck with distros. That said I've seen GitHub do packaging hosting, I've made it do ISO hosting, sourceforge can do that, lots of options. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Tuesday, May 12th, 2026 at 5:48 PM, Paul Seelig <[email protected]> wrote: > On 5/12/26 09:59, Joseph Maloney wrote: > > For me the layout Debian uses is a total no-op. But I know this is a > > common thing beyond Debian and where they are set in their ways so am I. I > > have considered external packaging. > Depending from which angle one is looking at it, the layout used in > Debian for the GNUstep installations is either a mess or a blessing. > > It is probably a complete mess as seen from a pure GNUstep angle, and > this is probably a fair assessment from this perspective. > > But then again, when seen from the perspective of the system designed by > and for Debian it is a blessing to have GNUstep included alongside other > desktop options because it gives an umatched visibility to GNUstep for > interested Debian users who don't need to compile it on their own to be > able to have a look. This is an absolutely good thing as it shows that > GNUstep is alive and growing. And this is the main reason why it is > included in the wmlive distribution despite the shortcomings of the > packages distributed by Debian. > > Nonetheless, in context of wmlive, i was doubting if it wouldn't > actually be doing a disservice to GNUstep by including the Debian > package variants. > > The GNUstep packages as currently distributed by Debian are not > supporting libobjc2 nor ARC, and quite a few users/developers have > already complained about this lack with wmlive because their software > requires these features. Unfortunately, i am not in the position to > recompile all the Debian GNUstep components with these features on my > own as i lack the specific expertise and understanding required to do > the same. > I am not a programmer and my possibilities for contributions are limited > to sysadmin level activities such as building and providing the > live-build based wmlive ISO images, mostly recombining what is already > readily available. > > In fact, i personally think that Debian is unintentionally rather doing > a disservice to GNUstep by not already providing libobjc2 based GNUstep > packages instead of the current offerings. This is something that should > have been done already since years. > But just like for the GNUstep project itself, the amount of sufficiently > capable package maintainers is limited, and the few who are taking the > burden of the work can't be expected to autoexploit themselves much more > than they already do. Just as everybody else, these people only have 24 > hours a day at their disposal, and need to juggle their Debian > activities with the real life of any adult, like earning money, care for > their family, and so on. > > Said that, there appear to be initiatives underway in Debian to take > care of the libobjc2/ARC hurdle, but it is currently unclear what the > actual status of concrete activities is. For this, please refer to > https://alioth-lists.debian.net/pipermail/pkg-gnustep-maintainers/2025-January/006241.html > from January 2025, which offers a glimmer of hope, albeit without any > visible results so far. I guess a helping hand would be very well received. > > For my own project https://wmlive.sourceforge.net the inclusion of > GNUstep components is optional and, as used to be the case in prior > years, the absence of them wouldn't make any real difference for its > usefulness. While it does include a wide range of GNUstep components it > doesn't aim at being a GNUstep centric distribution. > The main idiosyncratic objective of wmlive is to provide a mostly > complete Debian system aimed at competent system administrators > requiring a convenient tool box of utilities, and to have the Window > Maker X11 window manager as its primary GUI. It is not aimed at newbie > Linux users who would be much better served with any other of the more > popular Linux distributions. And it doesn't care about Wayland either. > > Hopefully, it should be clear that the availablilty of GNUstep packages > within the Debian context is very valuable for offering a show case for > GNUstep. The way it currently is, and as unsatisfying as it might appear > when seen from other vantage points, it does provide visibility for > GNUstep. And that certainly is a very good thing. > > Thanks to all for your wonderful work! > > Regards, > P.Seelig > > https://fosstodon.org/@wmlive | https://wmlive.sourceforge.net > > >
