Hello Paul,
I'll answer this email, but really, we are talking in circles here.
You seem to think I don't understand your situation, and thats why I
disagree, and that is simply not the case. I disagree with your
position, understanding it fully. I will answer your points below,
but I really do not see any further discourse on this issue as being
worthwhile to anyone.
I do not think there is ever a situation where the customer should not
be listed as the admin contact, under ANY circumstances, are you
disagree with that. I think that is the bottom line, and that
anything further said will just cement those two positions. If
anything your posts in response have done nothing more than strengthen
my already strong opinions on the subject.
Tuesday, September 05, 2000, 5:00:26 PM, you wrote:
> "William X. Walsh" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Why do you need to be the admin contact for the domains?
> To perform transfers to start with. As I said in my previous email, I
> think you're assuming that the company managing the domain is in the
> domain selling business.
No, I don't. I assume they are the ISP providing the services to the
customer. My position on this is the same regardless of who the
registrar is. I'm not talking about the RSP or registrar being a
contact, I'm strictly talking about the ISP.
> If you provide support then you need to be able
> to fully manage the domain because you're the one responsible for moving
> that domain if some other registrar, hosting company or whatever offers
> a better deal.
I certainly hope you are not transfering domains between registrars on
behalf of your customers without their participation. You are in
effect binding them to contracts that they may or may not wish to
consent to. This is why they should be the admin contact. The
decision to transfer the domain to another registrar is one that
should reside with the owner as admin contact with your advise. They
should have to approve the transfer, and bind themselves to the
registration contract. If you were registering domains through me, I
would insist on the customer being the one to enter into the contract.
I certainly think any other domain registration provider would do the
same.
> How can I perform transfers for my clients if I'm not the admin contact?
See above.
>> > It may be a fact of life but that doesn't mean that ethical companies
>> > can't provide a good service. The ethical companies are answering
>>
>> The ethical customers can do this without being the admin contact.
> Ethical companies I think you meant and no they can't because the admin
> contact is required to perform certain functions that the technical
> contact cannot, such as authorise transfers.
And those are functions that the owner of the domain, as the customer
of the registration provider and owner of the domain, MUST be involved
in.
>> > You don't address the situation I explicitly listed, where a company is
>> > paid explicitly to deal with all aspects of domain management, with the
>> > full knowledge of the client that the company is acting on their behalf
>> > in all matters. We have many clients who just have a PC in their bedroom
>>
>> And again, this does not require that the ISP be listed as admin
>> contact.
> We're not talking about ISPs we're talking about support companies.
Same difference as far as this discussion goes.
>> > and know nothing about the internet but are selling their "hobby" in
>> > their spare time on their website. These clients wouldn't know what to
>> > do with any contact from the registrar and would immediately pass the
>> > matter on to us. In those cases they knowingly and willingly make us the
>> > admin contact.
>>
>> I question the knowingly part. I do not think they understand that
>> this effectively makes you the owner of their domain names, and that
>> in the event of a dispute, you could assert ownership rights over
>> their domain name. I think those customers are not being explained
>> that being the admin contact for their domain is nothing to be scared
>> of, or to be feared. And that being the admin contact does not mean
>> they are not permitting their ISP to manage the domain for them as the
>> tech contact.
> How can I possibly assert ownership rights over a domain by being the
> admin contact? As the system administrator I have no claim of ownership
> over what I administer, including the domain names.
Because in practice the admin contact is recognized as the domain
owner. It really is that simple. Even the OpenSRS system recognizes
that, as NSI as done for a long time. The admin contact is
effectively the owner of the domain with full rights to do whatever to
the domain, including delete it, transfer it to a third party, and do
all other acts that would commonly expected to be limited to the owner
of the domain name.
>> > I think you're trying to make it a clear cut issue when it isn't one.
>>
>> It really is one. There is no reason for an ISP to be the admin
>> contact, and no reason for the customer to not be the admin contact.
>> In my eyes, and I think I am not alone here, that is a clear cut
>> matter.
> I don't seem to be getting the situation I'm referring to across clearly
> enough. This is not a situation where there is an ISP. This is a
> situation where you are explicitly hired to be the "admin contact". You
> represent the company you're providing support for in all respects, just
> as though you were an employee.
No difference. You are not am employee, you are a contractor at best.
Same reasoning applies.
>> Again I ask you, what is it that you need to be the admin contact to
>> do on behalf of your customers that you could not do as the tech
>> contact?
> As well as the issue of performing transfers, there are the occasional
> mailings from the registrar about some issue or another that the client
> does not want to have to deal with. The issue with OpenSRS, which is the
> only registrar I've come across that forces the owner and admin to be
> the same is that the domain admin is the person who has access to the
> management environment.
This is patently untrue. Nearly every domain registrar treats the
admin contact as the owner, including NSI even prior to the shared
registry system.
And the technical contact can have access to the management
environment, and does not require being listed as the admin contact.
> The whole point of having a support contract is
> to not have to deal with these issues, in the same way that getting a
> support contract for your server means you don't have to worry about
> allocating user accounts or email addresses. I'm talking about companies
> that don't have an internal IT dept but have a significant IT
> infrastructure, they outsource everything and you act on their behalf as
> though you worked there.
The admin contact does not have to DO anything except be the admin
contact, with the ability to veto the ISP/contractor/whatever you want
to call yourself to try and confuse the issue, and to act in their
interests when/if they feel they need. It provides them the tool.
They don't have to use it.
>> What is the negative to the customer to be listed as the admin contact
>> for their own domain?
> They have to do work that they are paying to have taken off their hands.
Ah yes, quite a lot of work it is. Approving transfers between
registrars, and binding themselves to the ensuing contract.
They should be required to be involved in that process.
Next reason?
--
Best regards,
William mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
