Thanks everyone for your feedback so far. Note that the original pull request was merged quickly*, but has since been reverted and a duplicate PR opened to allow more time for discussion <https://github.com/swcarpentry/python-novice-gapminder/pull/697>. Regarding Paul's question about why I recommended that learners do not use genAI while learning to code, Simon’s response closely echoes my own thoughts.
Please keep the comments coming, either here or on GitHub. I hope to get the changes merged next week. Cheers, Toby * This was my fault: I put a lot of thought into the general communications I was going to send about these changes but forgot to also tell the lesson Maintainers what I had planned 🤦♂️ > On 17. Mar 2025, at 11:22, Ken Lacey via discuss > <discuss@lists.carpentries.org> wrote: > > Ken Lacey reacted to your message: > From: Waldman, Simon via discuss <discuss@lists.carpentries.org > <mailto:discuss@lists.carpentries.org>> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2025 9:03:28 AM > To: discuss <discuss@lists.carpentries.org > <mailto:discuss@lists.carpentries.org>> > Subject: RE: [cp-discuss] Re: Feedback Request: Lesson Updates on Generative > AI > > I think the reasoning behind the “don’t use AI when you’re learning” comment > is that there is a risk that people simply use code that they are given > without thinking about it, and therefore don’t build a mental model of what > is going on, don’t learn, and hence are unable to spot mistakes by the AI or > build more advanced things. > > In a sense, I think it’s best to think of AI coding assistance as a more > advanced version of “look it up on StackOverflow”. We have all come across > plenty of people who have done all their coding by copy-pasting snippets from > StackOverflow without fully understanding them – as well as people who have > laid the groundwork by learning what they are doing first, and *then* looked > things up to much better effect. I think this is especially important for a > first language – when one is learning programming as well as a particular > syntax. > > That’s my 2p; clearly “don’t use AI” is not enforceable and won’t be adhered > to by many, but it’s important that we explain the reason that that advice is > given (and maybe consider moderating it to “limit use of AI” or similar) so > that hopefully most learners will bear it in mind. > > -- > Dr Simon Waldman / simon.wald...@hw.ac.uk <mailto:simon.wald...@hw.ac.uk> > Assistant Professor of Energy Technologies, Heriot-Watt University > Programme lead for MSc Renewable & Sustainable Energy Transition > > From: Paola Di Maio <paola.dim...@gmail.com <mailto:paola.dim...@gmail.com>> > Sent: 16 March 2025 22:46 > To: discuss <discuss@lists.carpentries.org > <mailto:discuss@lists.carpentries.org>> > Subject: Re: [cp-discuss] Re: Feedback Request: Lesson Updates on Generative > AI > > **************************************************************** > Caution: This email originated from a sender outside Heriot-Watt University. > Do not follow links or open attachments if you doubt the authenticity of the > sender or the content. > **************************************************************** > > Thank you Toby and all for the discussion > it is an important one, at many levels > > I have always detested coding, comparing it to unnecessary bricklaying vs me > being interested in information architectures > > When AI generated code became available I felt relief, the finally humanity > has found a way of avoiding coding by hand > > My question is: is the AI generated code as good as, better or worse than > humanly written code? > Having the code written up already means learners must learn how to implement > it and run it correctly > > can it be used to learn/teach about coding more productively - ie engaging > learners to Implement debug, test, maniupate, evaluate the ai generated output > and how to correct it and improve it, rather than putting their effort into > writing > > AI generated code could allow learners to move straight into the next level > of coding, that is implementation > Thorough understanding of how the syntax and logic of the program should > still be required, but the human intelligence > so rare and precious can be spared the tedious task of actually writing it > > > On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 6:21 AM Paul Harrison via discuss > <discuss@lists.carpentries.org <mailto:discuss@lists.carpentries.org>> wrote: > Hi Toby, > > I'm following this ongoing discussion with interest. Great to see this being > added to Carpentries material. > > We recommend that you avoid getting help from generative AI while you learn > to code > > I was a bit surprised by this negative conclusion. My feeling would be that > it isn't reasonable to expect people not to use these tools while learning, > and therefore they need to know how to use them safely. And they do seem > quite good at explaining code or suggesting different approaches. > > Here's a slide I used in a recent workshop, although I'm far from 100% happy > with it. > https://monashdatafluency.github.io/r-progtidy/slides/introduction.html#11 > > > > > > Founded in 1821, Heriot-Watt is a leader in ideas and solutions. With > campuses and students across the entire globe we span the world, delivering > innovation and educational excellence in business, engineering, design and > the physical, social and life sciences. 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All activity on this and other Carpentries spaces should abide by The > Carpentries Code of Conduct found here: > https://docs.carpentries.org/topic_folders/policies/code-of-conduct.html > The Carpentries <https://carpentries.topicbox.com/latest> / discuss / see > discussions <https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss> + participants > <https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/members> + delivery options > <https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/subscription>Permalink > <https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/Tcd00cc2e2d640548-M471e328bfeff050c2e5b25da> -- Dr Toby Hodges (he/him) Director of Curriculum The Carpentries | https://carpentries.org Schedule a meeting with me: https://calendly.com/tobyhodges ------------------------------------------ This list is for the purpose of general discussion about The Carpentries including community activities, upcoming events, and announcements. 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