On Sun, 12 Jun 2011, [email protected] wrote:

> I'm on a new mail client and accidentally responded to just Derek.
>
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 02:00:58PM -0400, Derek J. Balling wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2011, at 8:40 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 07:25:23AM -0400, Evan Pettrey wrote:
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> I've been asked to put together a presentation on the pros and cons of 
>>>> cloud
>>>> computing and a recommendation for what, if anything, can be moved to the
>>>> cloud which will result in a net savings that will be worth any additional
>>>> problems/headaches.
>>>
>>> I think the whole conversation is easier if you don't say "cloud" - instead,
>>> say "outsourcing" -
>
>> Maybe. Maybe not. You could just as easily be running in a private cloud, 
>> inside your own facility, on your own hardware, where you virtualize your 
>> entire infrastructure for maximum versatility. Heard from a lot of people at 
>> the HP Discover conference this past week doing just that, and it's just as 
>> valid a definition of "cloud computing" as any other (moreso than many 
>> actually).
>
> while a good pxe setup is great, and really, the only reasonable way
> to manage a fleet once it gets beyond a certain size, I think it's silly
> to call it "the cloud"  because that sort of thing has been the way it's
> done at larger places for most of my career.  (granted, 10 years ago when
> I tried it for the first time, it still required flashing firmware
> sometimes to make pxe work, but my point is that the technology has been
> here for a long time.)    If marketing wants to call it something else,
> that's fine, but for the sake of our own sanity, we should call it
> 'automatic provisioning' or 'pxe provisioning' or 'kickstart'  or something
> a little more descriptive that doesn't confuse the issue with virtualization.
>
> So yeah, instead of 'internal cloud'  I say "automatic provisioning system"
> mean, it's a good thing to have, essential once your system
> gets beyond a certain size, but saying that this has anything to do with
> the decision to virtualize, I think, is a mistake.  If you do virtualize,
> you should put effort into making the virtuals provisionable through the
> same system as physical servers.  Heck, cobbler does this out of
> box.  With both xen and VMware, I know you can use pxe to deliver
> guest kernels, too.
>
> I think one great disservice all this 'cloud' talk does is relating
> auto-provisioning to virtualization.  Both technologies are great when
> you need them, but you can have auto-provisioning without virtualization
> and vis-a-vis.  Personally, I think that automatic provisioning is
> useful in more situations than virtualization is, but really you
> should look at both technologies on their own;  You are doing yourself
> a disservice if you virtualize because you want automatic provisioning
> capabilities.

This is what I am seeing from a lot of people, both in my company, and 
from the vendors talking to them. When they start talking about the 
benifits of virtualization, 90% of the time they are really talking about 
the benifits of auto-provisioning.

the problem is that as companies grow, they usually don't start doing 
standard builds and auto-provisioning when they should (leading to very 
inefficient operation), and since it's next to impossible to do a 
'virtualization strategy' without auto-provisioning, admins are getting 
trained to think that if they need auto-provisioning they need 
virtualization.

if you need 100 identical servers to run a particular service, 
virtualizing those servers isn't the answer, auto-provisioning in the 
answer. Even if you just need 2-3 identical servers to run a particular 
service youprobably really just need auto-provisioning.

David Lang

> I think keeping some control over the jargon used in our work is
> important;   It's hard to do our jobs if we have to use marketing
> terms that have no (or a large number) of operational meanings;  this
> is why I try to break it down in to real terms that have real meaning.
>
>
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