> > We tend to be more interested in our identity and personal value when we > are > young, and tend to move towards in-depth discussions focus on subject > matter > rather than participant as we age and mature. Younger generations still use > usenet and mailing list, lots of young academic use both channel heavily. > > For example, 80% of discussions on /r/sysadmin are about "how stupid > l'users > are" or "how management just doesn't understand it", while discussion on > this > list are about professionalization, ethics, tools, how to stir one's > career etc.. > > I badmouthed this part of your email on #lopsa, so thought it would be fairer to actually say here: Your analysis of /r/sysadmin seems fallacious to me and might indeed be indicative of people being resistant to new communications forums.
Actually look at the threads on https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/new/#page=1 . First, you'll notice that there are >100 threads per day. discuss@lopsa (according to my archives) seems to get < 20 discussion threads per month. Second, the questions run the gamut: some user-hate (although it's becoming more frowned upon and the responses to it get more negative) but far, far more technical questions ("how do I?"), practice questions ("how do you?"), advisories (security and otherwise) etc. Now to quote you out of order: > I disagree... IM, "instant" messaging (which slack is), allows fast > discussion > which promotes quick thinking, witty, answers, while email promotes slow, > researched thinking, which to me is more in-depth. > Here's discuss@lopsa for April (chosen at semi-random). It's long because I wanted to give an accurate representation, apologies. > consumer home networking gear (incl wireless ap) that allows you to troubleshoot problems? in which people gave advice on Open/DD-WRT routers that've served them well for personal use > Just thought I'd pass on the thought. Passing a link about linuxclusterinstitute.org on to Ski (no discussion) > An interesting view on the ever-increasing complexity in building applications In which a ranty complaint blog about the author's inability to build Hadoop (nor apparently track down distro source packages to figure out how to build Hadoop) is responded to with a rant against developers: >> This is one of the more frustrating aspects of my job these days. More and more, this is exactly what developers want to do. "Hey, I just downloaded it from XXXX and installed it. That's all you need to do!" >> Personally, I blame <STARTFLAMEWAR> *DevOps* </STARTFLAMEWAR> Is that better than complaining about users? Probably not. > Resource query... A question about determining what drive is in a firmware slot, to which there were some good theoretical, practical, and technical answers given. > Problems with Git on windows Ski had a problem with Git on Windows. He was recommended SourceTree. It ended up being a firewall problem at work. > Asset Management Systems The perennial question ("is there an asset management system in existence that doesn't stink like a week-old fish?"). No answers or further discussion. > NTP appliances A query on a good strat 1 NTP appliance to buy. Initial answers included "use a raspberry Pi", but then Kern finally recommended a microsemi appliance from personal experience. > Secure Alternatives to US Based hosting Branson wanted a non-U.S. cloud provider. You (Yves) were the only one who really answered the question, the rest mentioned how AWS/GCE/Azure had non-U.S. datacenters. > "More effective" in a specific context, when answers are needed > immediately. > Less effective for long term in-depth discussion. > > All of that quote-work on my part to say this: if you think discuss@lopsa is being used for in-depth discussion of higher level topics germane to the field of systems administration...well... definitely not by volume. Slack isn't a discussion forum and I don't see it replacing #lopsa on IRC, but this particular email discussion forum isn't anything like an example a successful organization should aspire to. It'd be ruder than normal of me to not offer any opinion on a solution or way forward, so I will. First, make discuss@lopsa part of a system with a web gateway. I'd recommend the free Google Apps for 501(c) using their discussion list capability, but really just something that works so that people aren't forced to sub to the list to take part in discussions. I know there exists some hatred for gapps mailing lists, so really whatever works that isn't listman/pipermail. Second, post to https://www.reddit.com/r/LOPSA anything that's going on, and cross post to https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin . Take advantage of a vibrant high traffic discussion forum comprised of your target membership. Jeff > > - Slack is not open source but this is not the FSF. I do not see what > difference that makes. Office 365 isn’t FOSS either but is still widely > used. > I only see this as a hindrance in terms of a FOSS debate, not in practical > terms. > > It is important. Google Facebook etc.. have made sure IM are a bunch of > isolated islands. That is really sad. Slack, Yammer etc... are doing > exactly > the same with IRC. You could argue that they could have just written an > amazing IRC client and it'd be as good as current slack, but they wouldn't > be > able to monetize that. Federation and free participation, is like a > multiplier > for technology, but it does mean that somebody has to sponsor it (either a > company giving technology away for free, or volunteers spending hours > coding > for the hope of notability). > > > -- > http://yves.zioup.com > gpg: 4096R/32B0F416 > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ >
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